Which is more vital to the party?

[Zenodotus of Ephesus]

Okay. I've read the rest of the thread now. I'd say try to attract and archery-oriented fighter sidekick for your paladin. He can be a background character that doesn't outshine anyone else and helps the party out tremendously.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Okay. I've read the rest of the thread now. I'd say try to attract and archery-oriented fighter sidekick for your paladin. He can be a background character that doesn't outshine anyone else and helps the party out tremendously.

Well, while this would undoubtedly make the party more powerful, it wouldn't help address the weakness of the party at all, which is my entire reason for getting a cohort in the first place.

 

[STARP_JVP]

Take the wizard and buy some healing potions.

 

[FireLance]

A paladin technically can't have a bard cohort. A paladin's cohort must be Lawful-Good, and of course a bard needs to be Chaotic. But more than that, I'm not sure I'm interested in a bard. They're too fragile for our game. Light armor, a d6 hit die, and two levels below the rest of the party? If I do pick up a cohort, I'm going to have a hard enough time keeping a cleric or wizard alive, let alone a bard.

Nitpick: a bard cannot be Lawful, but he does not need to be Chaotic. Moreover, there's always the possibility of a bard/paladin with the Devoted Performer (CAdv) feat. Make him a gnome bard/paladin, and you even get +2 to Constitution for an extra 1 hp/level. Give him the Battle Caster (CArc) feat, and he can cast arcane spells in Medium armor, e.g. mithril full plate. And, if you can keep a wizard alive, you can certainly do the same for a bard.

 

[Corsair]

New answer:

Cleric with the Magic and Knowledge domains. big HD, armor, shield, good saves, lots of utility magic, and can use wands and scrolls. (And if you want to piss of nyrfherdr, go for the cheater of Mystra )

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Nitpick: a bard cannot be Lawful, but he does not need to be Chaotic. Moreover, there's always the possibility of a bard/paladin with the Devoted Performer (CAdv) feat. Make him a gnome bard/paladin, and you even get +2 to Constitution for an extra 1 hp/level. Give him the Battle Caster (CArc) feat, and he can cast arcane spells in Medium armor, e.g. mithril full plate. And, if you can keep a wizard alive, you can certainly do the same for a bard.

You've got me on the bard's alignment. I'd thought it was Chaotic, but you're right, it's merely non-Lawful. That doesn't change the discrepancy though.

And as far as wizard survivability vs. bard survivability, I would be counting on spells like Contingency, Stoneskin, Fly, etc. to keep my wizard alive. Spells the bard doesn't have access to.

I'd also prefer not to have a partial caster multiclassed with another partial caster. It's the lack of well-applied high-level cleric and wizard spells that's weakening our party. Adding some low-level paladin spells and low-level bard spells won't help us, though it might be just what the doctor ordered for another party.

I hadn't thought about a gnome. I'd actually been eyeing the dwarf. The bonus to con, the bonus to saves vs. spells and spell-like effects, etc. etc. Just seemed the safest choice for a character that will be 2 levels lower than the party to start with.

New answer:

Cleric with the Magic and Knowledge domains. big HD, armor, shield, good saves, lots of utility magic, and can use wands and scrolls. (And if you want to piss of nyrfherdr, go for the cheater of Mystra )

No, I never want to piss off the DM. I know how much work DMing is. If I think something might be too powerful, I bring it up when I ask for permission to bring it into the game. And from what I've heard of the Cheater of Mystra on the Optimization board over at WotC, I'd be embarrassed to even ask. I am thinking your idea is the best to go with at the moment, though. Cleric seems to offer a lot of what we're missing, especially with the magic domain.

 

[beaver1024]

As the cleric has the ability to be a better wizard than a wizard (especially a poorly constructed wizard), there is really no other viable option. Additionally having 2 clerics pretty much breaks the only balancing factor for clerics that our illustrious 3.5 designers put into the system. Thus having an additional cleric provides a multiplicative effect rather than a piddly additive effect any other class would add.

 

[TerraDave]

Other then another answer for "Cleric or Bard"....if you just want to add some key arcane spells, the answer is Sorcerer...and they will be easier for you to play along with your main charecter.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Uhmm.. I think the correct answer is Wizard and I don't know what you guys are smokin!

That is not to say that a cleric is not essential to a party. The cleric is.

But a party can withstand a poorly played cleric and still gain the balance of the cleric's contributions to the party post-battle (and the benefit of turn undead in battle at that appropriate time).

A hopelessly played Wizard - otoh - is going to get the party killed.

 

[Voadam]

Uhmm.. I think the correct answer is Wizard and I don't know what you guys are smokin!

That is not to say that a cleric is not essential to a party. The cleric is.

But a party can withstand a poorly played cleric and still gain the balance of the cleric's contributions to the party post-battle (and the benefit of turn undead in battle at that appropriate time).

A hopelessly played Wizard - otoh - is going to get the party killed.

Why? Lack of area of effect spells? They have a competent archer so ranged attacks are taken care of. Teleporting? terrain control spells like walls? What would you say is essential about the competent wizard to a party? In our games the wizard arcane trickster archmage is most useful for his massive search and disable device checks as the party's rogue. He certainly does less damage in combat and is generally frailer than anybody else (VOP druid, paladin with artefact holy sword, cleric fighter, fighter archer specialist). The only one he does better than is my eldritch knight who only has an advantage in tactics from the way I play him. And my character (who isn't with them currently as I now DM the group) was designed to be a fun warrior mage and good at going solo and covering all bases (which has happened more than once), not for specialized combat optimization like the rest of the party.