Shades of Eternity
Hero
Besides listing your favorite creatures from this era, how has dungeons and dragons changed monsters from this time and history and was it better or for worse?
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D&D General Which medieval monsters are different then their dnd equivalent?
- Thread starter Shades of Eternity
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Paul Farquhar
Legend
You mean "different to"? [grammar police]
It's a bit difficult to pin down which D&D monsters are medieval, most are based on much older myths.
It's a bit difficult to pin down which D&D monsters are medieval, most are based on much older myths.
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Yaarel
🇮🇱He-Mage
Most D&D human-like creatures have little or no resemblance to their medieval inspirations.
Figures such as Elves, Gnomes, Fairies, Trolls, and so on, are animistic beings of specific features of nature and relating to fate (whence magic).
The representations of them in D&D and Tolkien euhemerize these folkbeliefs to be as if a kind of historical human ethnicity. Thus the fantasy resembles more the early modern period where increasing access to travel and communication allowed encounters with the diverse human cultures coexisting together.
D&D 4e and 5e help return to the earlier the medieval sensibility with the Feywild and the Shadaowfell, by presenting a spirit world that distinguishes from the mundane Material Plane. But then these planes are often too divorced from the natural features of the Material Plane. Also the 5e distinction between Ether, Positive Fey, and Negative Shadow, might prove useful but currently remains awkward. The useful aspect is a distinction between the Fey forces of life, nature, and wellbeing, versus the Shadow forces of death, cataclysm, and entropy. For example, in a Norse context, one might associate Aesir and Alfar with Fey forces, versus Jǫtnar and Dvergar with Shadow forces. But individual beings are diverse and can be part of unexpected forces.
The most important medieval aspect is to reconnect to nature, so that the Border Ether includes a Border Fey and a Border Shadow. Then natural places in the Material might be vibrant attuning the Fey Positivity or desolate attuning the Shadow Negativity, or some ordinary mix attuning Ethereal admixture.
The Norse Troll is the mind of a specific mountain, or a specific waterfall, or a specific forest, or so on. These are animistic beings. Sotospeak the soul of the mountain could project itself outward to influence its environs. The soul can even take a humanlike form (such as a human or giant or ogre) or an animallike form (such as a wolf or monstrous wolf, or snake or serpent) while the soul roams the world, and sometimes even materializes physically in a ghostlike way. Often Troll are very beautiful (such as Risi, Hulder, Fossegrim, etcetera), even if dangerous. They are the minds of natural phenomena that are both majestically lovely but deadly.
Animism is about mindful influences. In D&D this correlates with the Psionic power source. It might make sense to say Psionic and Primal are the same thing. The power of a soul. Including the mind of a mountain, plain, river, or weather pattern.
Figures such as Elves, Gnomes, Fairies, Trolls, and so on, are animistic beings of specific features of nature and relating to fate (whence magic).
The representations of them in D&D and Tolkien euhemerize these folkbeliefs to be as if a kind of historical human ethnicity. Thus the fantasy resembles more the early modern period where increasing access to travel and communication allowed encounters with the diverse human cultures coexisting together.
D&D 4e and 5e help return to the earlier the medieval sensibility with the Feywild and the Shadaowfell, by presenting a spirit world that distinguishes from the mundane Material Plane. But then these planes are often too divorced from the natural features of the Material Plane. Also the 5e distinction between Ether, Positive Fey, and Negative Shadow, might prove useful but currently remains awkward. The useful aspect is a distinction between the Fey forces of life, nature, and wellbeing, versus the Shadow forces of death, cataclysm, and entropy. For example, in a Norse context, one might associate Aesir and Alfar with Fey forces, versus Jǫtnar and Dvergar with Shadow forces. But individual beings are diverse and can be part of unexpected forces.
The most important medieval aspect is to reconnect to nature, so that the Border Ether includes a Border Fey and a Border Shadow. Then natural places in the Material might be vibrant attuning the Fey Positivity or desolate attuning the Shadow Negativity, or some ordinary mix attuning Ethereal admixture.
The Norse Troll is the mind of a specific mountain, or a specific waterfall, or a specific forest, or so on. These are animistic beings. Sotospeak the soul of the mountain could project itself outward to influence its environs. The soul can even take a humanlike form (such as a human or giant or ogre) or an animallike form (such as a wolf or monstrous wolf, or snake or serpent) while the soul roams the world, and sometimes even materializes physically in a ghostlike way. Often Troll are very beautiful (such as Risi, Hulder, Fossegrim, etcetera), even if dangerous. They are the minds of natural phenomena that are both majestically lovely but deadly.
Animism is about mindful influences. In D&D this correlates with the Psionic power source. It might make sense to say Psionic and Primal are the same thing. The power of a soul. Including the mind of a mountain, plain, river, or weather pattern.
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Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
Dragons.
The Medieval Dragon - Beyond the Point
So it’s St. George’s Day 2015, and we all know the tale of the knight in shining armour slaying the dragon to rescue the damsel. Dragons and the Medieval Era are like bread and butter, but of course they aren’t real! That led me to further investigation; what is the historic significance of...
beyondthepoint.co.uk
A lot smaller than our common garden D&D dragon.
Yaarel
🇮🇱He-Mage
I think of these more naturalistic "beast" dragons, to be like the D&D Drake. They should have low intelligence of other animals, generally Medium or Large size, but still exhibit the Dragon creature type.Dragons.
A lot smaller than our common garden D&D dragon.
Even these animalistic Drakes are often spirits, such as the ones that the angels battle. At the same time, the bestiary dragon originates from descriptions of the african rock python, and was understood to be a reallife kind of snake. In this sense the D&D Drake would be an animal of the Material Plane, but its form can manifest from any plane: Celestial, Fiend, Fey, and Shadow.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Dragons aren’t particularly medieval.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
Medieval zombies weren't typically into brains-consumption; that's more of a 20th-century zombie issue, due to the invention of the brains-depleting television. Due to the majority of medieval zombies formerly being peasants, they were a much more eat-the-rich-type of crowd, which is a nuance that D&D hasn't faithfully represented.
Voadam
Legend
Medieval is fairly vague so it might help to define Medieval for your purposes.
Mostly for Medieval I think of heraldry types of beasts like a Griffin which seems not that changed.
Maybe some King Arthur and knights of the round table stories so maybe Ogres and Hill Giants?
Cocatrice and tarrasque? Cocatrice does not have the weird origins that actual myth gives them, or the poison stuff or the weasel vulnerability. Tarrasque does not have the maiden vulnerability and the myth one is much smaller without a lot of the D&D powers.
Viking era Norse myth monsters like Frost and Fire Giants are generally 700-1000 CE oral tradition later written down so I would think they count.
Greek stuff is from the ancient world so very pre-Medieval so the turning of the Minotaur and Medusa into D&D monster types instead of individual one offs and stuff like the Nymphs and Satyrs are sort of outside the medieval stuff for Europe until the Renaissance revival of them after the Medieval period, unless you count the Arabic world preservation of that type of stuff in which case it could be back in.
Pre-Dracula vampire stories were very different so the Dracula based D&D one is different in a lot of ways from Medieval Slavic and other culture vampires of the period. Most are not handsome and charming.
D&D Werewolves are fairly based on the wolfman movies which are different than a lot of werewolf stories in particulars dating back to Greek myths. Werebears are mostly like Bjorn in the Hobbit and some Norse berserker stories. Turning them into D&D communicable disease lycanthropes like werewolves is different, as well as the wolfman silver vulnerability.
Mostly for Medieval I think of heraldry types of beasts like a Griffin which seems not that changed.
Maybe some King Arthur and knights of the round table stories so maybe Ogres and Hill Giants?
Cocatrice and tarrasque? Cocatrice does not have the weird origins that actual myth gives them, or the poison stuff or the weasel vulnerability. Tarrasque does not have the maiden vulnerability and the myth one is much smaller without a lot of the D&D powers.
Viking era Norse myth monsters like Frost and Fire Giants are generally 700-1000 CE oral tradition later written down so I would think they count.
Greek stuff is from the ancient world so very pre-Medieval so the turning of the Minotaur and Medusa into D&D monster types instead of individual one offs and stuff like the Nymphs and Satyrs are sort of outside the medieval stuff for Europe until the Renaissance revival of them after the Medieval period, unless you count the Arabic world preservation of that type of stuff in which case it could be back in.
Pre-Dracula vampire stories were very different so the Dracula based D&D one is different in a lot of ways from Medieval Slavic and other culture vampires of the period. Most are not handsome and charming.
D&D Werewolves are fairly based on the wolfman movies which are different than a lot of werewolf stories in particulars dating back to Greek myths. Werebears are mostly like Bjorn in the Hobbit and some Norse berserker stories. Turning them into D&D communicable disease lycanthropes like werewolves is different, as well as the wolfman silver vulnerability.
pawsplay
Hero
A hobgoblin was a house elf, typically depicted as a shapeshifter who was helpful but easily offended. "Hob" is just a nickname for Robert, so the name means "Bob goblin."
The mythical hydra was truly immortal. Its last head had to be buried under a rock to prevent its regeneration.
The basilisk was a tiny little snake that stood upright, with a "crown" about its shoulders, that could kill instantly with its touch. It feared only the weasel. In other words, it was a mythologized version of various sorts of cobra. Also, while small, it could be considered a sort of dragon.
Ettin is a variation on jotun, so essentially, another version of the frost giant.
Drow comes from trow, which is related to troll. So, earth-dwelling people with big noses, possibly with jewels in their belly buttons.
The mythical hydra was truly immortal. Its last head had to be buried under a rock to prevent its regeneration.
The basilisk was a tiny little snake that stood upright, with a "crown" about its shoulders, that could kill instantly with its touch. It feared only the weasel. In other words, it was a mythologized version of various sorts of cobra. Also, while small, it could be considered a sort of dragon.
Ettin is a variation on jotun, so essentially, another version of the frost giant.
Drow comes from trow, which is related to troll. So, earth-dwelling people with big noses, possibly with jewels in their belly buttons.
Yaarel
🇮🇱He-Mage
Roughly speaking, for the reallife world, I would count anything from about year 500 CE to about year 1500 CE to be "medieval".
This includes part of the renaissance period that happens earlier in Italy.
The classical and post classical periods are from about year 500 BCE to about year 500 CE, roughly speaking.
These are happily convenient round numbers.
D&D 5e often vaguely borrows early modern tropes (and fashions), like steampunk, British aristocracy, American founders, and French Revolution, right upto about 1900 CE, essentially anything before World War 1. This includes Japanese tropes from during this time period. Of course, the societal ethical values of D&D are from now, 2000 onward.
In any case, when aiming for "medievalesque", the frame of reference is 500-1500, from anywhere around the planet.
