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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 9161354" data-attributes="member: 996">That was problem with the Cleric for decades, yes. One 4e solved with the Warlord, and also for the Cleric and every other healer (and there was a 'leader for every source).&nbsp; Now, there was a very notorious, initially seemingly unintended Warlord build, that specialized in giving it's actions to other characters, the flavor text of the premier exploit for that build was giving a command, even though the actual mechanic was the Warlord giving his action to an ally, and, ironically, standing to the side and doing nothing but helping the other character shine.&nbsp; Thing is, there were not enough such exploits until a later supplement intentionally added support for the build, so it was under-performing as it would have to take at least powers that didn't work with it's schtick that it would be really bad at.&nbsp; And, you had to very specifically build for that, so, presumably, that's what you were going for (I've done it, with a warlord, and with a Warlord|Shaman and it's more fun than you might think). The other 7 or so official warlord builds were very clearly fighting, themselves, too. So (b) really only exists if you both don't understand that 'leader' was 4e jargon for 'support/healer,' and that 4e flavor text did not have the force of rules and could be freely changed by the player.&nbsp; (a) has been a very real problem with the Cleric in the past, but was not a problem with any 4e leader, and it is also something people want, and that one very outre Warlord build could be designed to do, as could a Cleric build in both 3.5 and 4e, the &quot;Pacifist&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 9161354, member: 996"] That was problem with the Cleric for decades, yes. One 4e solved with the Warlord, and also for the Cleric and every other healer (and there was a 'leader for every source). Now, there was a very notorious, initially seemingly unintended Warlord build, that specialized in giving it's actions to other characters, the flavor text of the premier exploit for that build was giving a command, even though the actual mechanic was the Warlord giving his action to an ally, and, ironically,[I] standing to the side and doing nothing but helping the other character shine. [/I]Thing is, there were not enough such exploits until a later supplement intentionally added support for the build, so it was under-performing as it would have to take at least powers that didn't work with it's schtick that it would be really bad at. And, you had to very specifically build for that, so, presumably, that's what you were going for (I've done it, with a warlord, and with a Warlord|Shaman and it's more fun than you might think). The other 7 or so official warlord builds were very clearly fighting, themselves, too. So (b) really only exists if you both don't understand that 'leader' was 4e jargon for 'support/healer,' and that 4e flavor text did not have the force of rules and could be freely changed by the player. (a) has been a very real problem with the Cleric in the past, but was not a problem with any 4e leader, and it is also something people want, and that one very outre Warlord build could be designed to do, as could a Cleric build in both 3.5 and 4e, the "Pacifist" [/QUOTE]

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