Which one do you prefer your character suffer? Death vs Rust Monster vs Level Drain

[Raven Crowking]

The 1e rust monster does no damage -- the thief can beat it to death with a club or the wizard can whack the heck out of it with a staff, both without any real risk. IMHO, once the players have stated that they are taking the appropriate actions, the best thing to do is declare the problem solved and move on. The rust monster either dies or runs off.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

I don't have a 2E DMG at the moment - the last time I played 2E was ten years ago - but I remember it stating that PCs should not be able to buy magic items in a store. Can anybody with a copy provide a page number?

I know as a fact that this is discussed in the High Level Handbook.


RC

 

[billd91]

I don't have a 2E DMG at the moment - the last time I played 2E was ten years ago - but I remember it stating that PCs should not be able to buy magic items in a store. Can anybody with a copy provide a page number?

I don't have it with me either (at least as far as page citations) but this is the edition with no prices listed for magic items.

The DMG help file that came with some CD of the rulebooks back in the day has a section on Buying Magical Items. It comes directly from the DMG text.

As player characters earn more money and begin facing greater dangers, some of them will begin wondering where they can buy magical items. Using 20th-century, real-world economics, they will figure there must be stores that buy and sell such goods. Naturally they will want to find and patronize such stores. However, no magical stores exist.
Before the DM goes rushing off to create magical item shops, consider the player characters and their behavior. Just how often do player characters sell those potions and scrolls they find? Cast in a sword +1? Unload a horn of blasting or a ring of free action?

More often than not, player characters save such items. Certainly they don't give away one-use items. One can never have too many potions of healing or scrolls with extra spells. Sooner or later the character might run out. Already have a sword +1? Maybe a henchman or hireling could use such a weapon (and develop a greater respect for his master). Give up the only horn of blasting the party has? Not very likely at all.
It is reasonable to assume that if the player characters aren't giving up their goods, neither are any non-player characters. And if adventurers aren't selling their finds, then there isn't enough trade in magical items to sustain such a business.

Even if the characters do occasionally sell a magical item, setting up a magic shop is not a good idea. Where is the sense of adventure in going into a store and buying a sword +1? Haggling over the price of a wand? Player characters should feel like adventurers, not merchants or greengrocers.
Consider this as well: If a wizard or priest can buy any item he needs, why should he waste time attempting to make the item himself? Magical item research is an important role-playing element in the game, and opening a magic emporium kills it. There is a far different sense of pride on the player's part when using a wand his character has made, or found after perilous adventure, as opposed to one he just bought.

Finally, buying and trading magic presumes a large number of magical items in the society. This lessens the DM's control over the whole business. Logically-minded players will point out the inconsistency of a well-stocked magic shop in a campaign otherwise sparse in such rewards.

 

[Dausuul]

I can't believe anyone would choose anything other than rust monster. It's like asking whether you'd choose to lose your Lexus, die, or get amnesia. I can always get another car, even if it's a 1972 Ford Pinto.

Well, it really depends. If the choice is between losing my Lexus (if I had a Lexus) and losing my memory of the last 10 minutes, then unless something really important happened in the last 10 minutes, I'll probably pick the latter. If it's a choice between a piece-of-crap rustbucket and losing my memory of the last 10 years, that's a different story.

Then factor in the question of whether and how easily the amnesia can be cured. To be fair, I'd forgotten about the "lose 2 years of your life" side effect of restoration in 2E, which has very little impact game-wise but is a daunting prospect RP-wise. On the other hand, if you're an adventurer, losing either a level or a powerful magic item could shorten your lifespan a lot more than two years. And in D&D, characters often have proof positive of the afterlife, which depending on your alignment could increase or decrease your incentive to maximize lifespan.

Also, the OP says "as a player." As a character, I'd never pick death, but as a player, I very well might.

...In fact, what the heck am I thinking? Screw level drain, I'm changing my answer to death. If I'm playing a heavily armored character pre-3E, I want that character to die posthaste so I can roll up a wizard!

I don't have it with me either (at least as far as page citations) but this is the edition with no prices listed for magic items.

The DMG help file that came with some CD of the rulebooks back in the day has a section on Buying Magical Items. It comes directly from the DMG text.

Thanks, that was the section I was thinking of.

 

[fanboy2000]

You know, as a DM, I've never seen PCs shy away from something just because it can kill them. I have, however, seen PCs trip over themselves running from the rust monster.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And how many of us have seen anti-Sunder posts- DMs and Players alike- about the sheer horror and unthinkability of destroying gear?

 

[billd91]

And how many of us have seen anti-Sunder posts- DMs and Players alike- about the sheer horror and unthinkability of destroying gear?

I've seen them. Don't subscribe to the hysteria myself.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Its chapter 1: the seven Maxims
pragraph 3: control magic

page 20: difficult to buy and sell magic items, even spell components

page 18: it is encouraged to use rust monsters to remove magic suits of armors from the game. Also spells which force magic items to save against destruction and hazards like going overboard of a ship are also encouraged to remove magic items from the game.

But i remember 2 more things... maybe they are from the DMG:

1. No magic item shops
2. Don´t tell your players they can try to create magic items...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've seen them. Don't subscribe to the hysteria myself.

Me either, but it is evidence that there are gamers out there that are EXTREMELY anti-Stuff destruction.

 

[Scribble]

I voted Death based on my own experiences.

1. Making a new 1e/2e/Basic dude wasn't that lengthy of a process.

2. Dropping a level wasn't really that bad either, but multiple levels sucked not because of length of calculation time, but because regaining those levels was annoying.

2. Most DMs let me make a new dude at worst 1 level lower then the rest of the party.

3. Most DMs also let me start with "level appropriate magic items." This often meant that combined with a stingy DM it was easier to get new gear by dying then finding more. (Plus the party inherited the dead dudes stuff.)