Which would you do when creating an epic character?

[sithramir]

So the question is this:

Should I be lvl 24 and have 1,800,000 gp's or level 21 and 2,900,000 gps to spend using Magical Artisan and Craft Wondrous item (Possibly Craft Ring or something else also).

I'm going to be wizard 3/cleric3/mystic theurge 10/dweormerkeeper 8 or 5

If i'm lvl 24 I gain vs being lvl 21:
One more Epic Feat
A bonus non-epic feat
One more mantle of spells (choose any spell taht can be converted from any other spell level or higher known)
Closer to 10th level of dweormerkeeper where I my feats spell level addition is reduced by 1. (Empower only +1 instead of +2)
Being closer to more epic feats and powers by being higher level'd.
Another stat point (not relevant as its uneven) and more skill points.
Gaining 2 feats as I wouldn't need item creation.

Its hard to justify until i've gotten a full idea of the all the items I want but the huge bonus in gold allows a lot more stuff!

 

[Arc]

Go for the XP. If you start at lvl 21, you'll still need to spend more xp to make those magic items, and loot often comes in much faster than gold.

Also, the Improved Metamagic epic feat allows for essentially the same thing, by reducing the raise in spell level by one (can be taken repeatedly). Prereq is Spellcraft 30 ranks, but that's only 3 levels away.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

How much xp will you have? Just enough to be the level you're at, or half-way? If it's just barely enough for level up, then definitely 24, so that crafting items won't drop you out of Epic levels.

And why wouldn't you need item creation if you're level 24? I'd say get item creation no matter what. Just means you can deck yourself out with extra stuff.

 

[Endur]

Answer: None of the Above.
Instead, be a
wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 14/ archmage 4

As soon as you hit epic level (level 21+), you want your progression to be Epic, so you get multiple epic feats, for class levels and character levels. Epic levels simply are more powerful than regular prc levels.

I'd also recommend archmage for Arcane Fire. Its nice to be able to zap enemies that have SR.

I'm going to be wizard 3/cleric3/mystic theurge 10/dweormerkeeper 8 or 5

 

[Pax]

It all, really, depends on what you're going for. Cruise on by my arena (link in my SIG below), check out the stuff going on there -- it's ECL 25, so, pretty close on what you're looking at. Ask a few questions, weasel some advice out of us -- and if you like what you see, stick around for some PvP epic-bashin' fun! ^_^

 

[ruleslawyer]

Answer: None of the Above.
Instead, be a
wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 14/ archmage 4

As soon as you hit epic level (level 21+), you want your progression to be Epic, so you get multiple epic feats, for class levels and character levels. Epic levels simply are more powerful than regular prc levels.

I'd also recommend archmage for Arcane Fire. Its nice to be able to zap enemies that have SR.

MT 14 is absolutely NOT worth it, assuming you use the rules in the 3.5 conversion documents.

I still say Clr3/Wiz3/MT 8/Dweomerkeeper 10, sithramir. That way, you can start the game with the ability to go straight into epic dweomerkeeper (which has a nice comfortable 1/3 bonus feat progression and full spellcasting). 6th-level spells in your secondary class is about as good as you'll ever need, and you'll be 21st level in your primary class, which is a three-level caster level vs. average CR encountered hit that's easily offset by Spell Penetration feats.

 

[James McMurray]

"My arena" he says. Like none of the rest of uswork or play there.

I'd also put in that the route you take could also be based a little on how experiece is going to be handed out. If the Forgotten Realms and 3.5 method will be used, then as an ECL 21 character you will gain experiene incrediby rapidly and will soon only be a level or less behind the other characters. If however XP will be calculated based on average party level, then it will take you quie a bit longer to catch up to the others.

I'd also second ruleslawyer in stating that epic MT as written by WotC is a complete waste. Going all the way to MT 10 wouldn't be bad, since it mean that you'll get 7th level spells (which include some very nice things for both Arcane and Divine).

What about being ECL 22 or 23 and having less to spend on crafting items?

 

[sithramir]

Sorry for the late reply but christmas takes its tolls.

I've found this out about the new group:

Items don't drop normal on things we fight so what I start with will most likely be most of what i'll get. I'm not sure if lots of gold is found or not but tahts what a player informed me of that dropping isn't normal.

He's using the new 3.5 exp only for combats (which aren't a lot or most of the experience). For role playing he's using CR based and i'll get a lot less if i'm lower level. He basically said i'll never catch up to the rest of the group.

As for doing archmage with mystic theurge. Its powerful and I'd thought about it but it doesn't fit with the character concept. I want to keep dweormerkeeper since the mantle of spells and improved metamagic at 10 are all epic feats that i'm getting for free PLUS the other epic feats. I might take archmage after i've maxed mystic theurge and Dweormerkeeper if I can justify it as more powerful than an epic progression prestige class (which may be hard).

I'd never thought about losing 2 levels of mystic theurge to gain maximized abilities from the dweormerkeeper. I like that idea but If i'm going to be 24 i'd rather have 9th level spells of both before progressing fully into wizard. (8th cleric spells are nice for reach spell heal/harm and 9th lvl spells are just a nice bonus.) However, having the improved metamagic earlier would allow reach spell and empower to be used at 1 level above at 7th level spells which might make this a better idea to start with.

Maybe Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 8/Dweormerkeeper 10 and since I can raise in either spellcasting class in the dweormerkeeper I could be equivalent wiz 17/cleric 15 and still gain higher clerical spells and the ability to use those feats at a lower cost. What i'll lose is more 9th level spells in wizard compared to yours or 9th level cleric spells as my previous idea. But i'm also gaining another mantle of spells spell, a non epic feat, and the improved metamagic (and staying at 24 I'll have 2 epic feats still).

My problem and the reason I was thinking going down to 21 was the ability to gain like 1.5 million more gold pieces to spend. I'd be able to get all I had planned before plus more epic things like the ring of ultimate elemental immunity and mantle of epic spell resistance ALONG with any other item I had wanted for my level 24 guy. This would give me much more defensive power overall but i'd lose versatility. The problem is whether or not its worth losing an epic feat and higher levels of spellcasting PLUS being nearere to MORE epic feats and prestige classes as the campaign rolls along.

Its hard to clearly choose either as I won't gain many more items (though maybe more gold) but i'd also never catch up from experience due to how the DM deals with it. I'm somewhat torn but already liking your idea of maxing Dweormer just because I gain that ability and lose nothing HUGE when I can use more powerful empowers and reach spell's in the slots at lower level than I would.

I'd love for more discussion on where to go with this info i've given and more suggestions or ideas. Thanks!

 

[Pax]

If you're concerned with Item Creation, consider the MAster Arcane Artisan PrC (WOTC website, under Epic Insights -- it's in the Compilation you can download from there, too). You can get a BIG boost in item-creation that way.

For example, for Wondrous Items ... get Craft Wondrous Item, Magical Artisan (Wondrous Item), and [Epic]Efficient Creation (Wondrous Item). Magical Artisan is in the FRCS hardcover, and gives a 25% discount to crafting costs (GP and XP alike) for the specified type of item.

Wiz(3)/Cle(3)/MT(10)/DwK(5)/MAA(3) will then give you a pool of 6,000XP free and clear of level advancement, with which to craft maghic items. And each level of MAA you acquire, will give you 1,000XP times your MAA level in additional points. With the 25% discount from Magical Artisan, that stacks nicely. Craft items that wold normally cost 8,000xp and 100,000gp to craft (200,000gp market price), for 75,000gp and NO XP AT ALL (though your MAA "pool" will be drained dry in the process). Essentially, that comes to 125,000GP market-value worth of items for free.

Further, the MAA gets single items of ever-increasing value, free ... starting at 100,000gp maximum value at 4th level, and another item every 4 levels after that (each one worth 100,000gp more than the one before). Epic bonus feats are earned once every 3 levels, and spellcasting is earned at every even-numbered level.

Entry requirements are:

Skills: Craft (any) 12 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 24
ranks, Spellcraft 24 ranks.
Feats: Efficient Item Creation, Skill Focus (Knowledge
[arcana]), any four item creation feats.
Spellcasting: Able to cast 6th-level arcane spells.

Eventually, you even get the ability to cannibalise other magic items, to refill that pseudo-XP pool (you get back about half as many XP as went into making the item, IIRC). And the pool KEEPS growing, with every MAA level you get ...

 

[sithramir]

Sorry but that prestige class is pretty worthless to me. I'm giving up 6 total feats to item creation and losing 5 levels of a prestige class that in those 5 level's i'll gain 3 equivalent epic feats. If I was going to choose another prestige class it'd be archmage as its so powerful. I"m just trying to find other ways to maximize.

I like the idea for another character but this epic one won't be able to mak emany more items for a while so I want it to have another identity.

Keep any other ideas coming