Whirlwindy, sneak-attacking invisible guy!

[ToddSchumacher]

No, it's one attack roll for each opponent. Not one attack roll for all opponents.

If I say to you and your two friends "I have one pie for each of you", how many pies are there?

-Hyp.

Oh ok, I stand corrected.

I'll shut up now.

 

[Crothian]

For what it's worth:

From Rules of the Game: Sneak Attacks (Part 2):
Perhaps the most common form of total concealment is the invisibility spell. A regular invisibility effect is broken when you attack. If you begin your turn under such an effect and you're making multiple attacks, you'll be invisible only for the first attack and your opponent will be denied Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) against that first attack.

-Hyp.

Ya, I get that. It is just that it seems that invisibility and flatfooted go hand to hand since it usually starts the combat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most of the time the invisble person attacks starts combat, so the character would be flatfooted until they go. So, the WWA would sneak attack everyone since there was suprise.

In the surprise round, he can't take a full-round action, so no Whirlwind Attack.

And besides, the original post stated: "(For this example, let's assume combat has begun, so they're not flatfooted)."

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

It's exactly the same, except I'm both invisible me and Bob in this example.

Most excellent.

-- N

 

[TracerBullet42]

If I say to you and your two friends "I have one pie for each of you", how many pies are there?

-Hyp.

Can I have some pie? Mmmm....pie.

As is nearly always the case...the smurf is right.

 

[monboesen]

So it will take Invisibility and a good initiative to pull this of regularly.

1. You initiate combat and gain surprise by attacking an enemy. Your invisibility ends.

2. You (hopefully) win initiative and whirlwind attacks all enemies within reach. You get sneak attack damage vs. every enemy eligble to it.

One of my players have this combo, but have yet to realise (or utilise) this. But it looks downright frightening.

 

[Bront]

WHIRLWIND ATTACK (GENERAL)
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feat

First of all, I don't see the 5 foot step you can take durring this, but this must be some other ruling that was made (I do see it under Improved Whirlwind Attack (epic) feat). I guess, as a full attack, it does make sense, and makes whirlwind attack much more interesting and usefull.

So, the only way that you could apply the sneak attack damage is if you rule that all attacks made with Whirlwind attack occure simultaniously (Meaning that you couldn't take the 5 foot step between them). Otherwise, they happen in a particular order.

It does make improved invisibility fun with this feat though. I never thought of that before. I'll have to try it sometime when I finaly get whirlwind attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, the only way that you could apply the sneak attack damage is if you rule that all attacks made with Whirlwind attack occure simultaniously (Meaning that you couldn't take the 5 foot step between them). Otherwise, they happen in a particular order.

THe other way I saw it done in 3E was for a Weapon Master with Quicker Than The Eye to use QttE to perform a standard action without being noticed (which denied Dex bonus if it was an attack)... and make that standard action a Ki Whirlwind.

"Hey, look over there!" [whackwhackwhackwhackwhack!]

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

If a character has multiple attacks because of high BAB or two weapon fighting, don't they get sneak attack with all those attacks?

No.

Please tell me Hyp actually made a mistake here....

Either that or I have to start doubting everything I think I remember....

 

[Hypersmurf]

Please tell me Hyp actually made a mistake here....

Well, I was answering the question "If a character has multiple attacks because of high BAB or two weapon fighting, don't they get sneak attack with all those attacks due to an invisibility spell?", since the context seemed to include that condition.

If a character has multiple attacks because of high BAB or two weapon fighting, he gets sneak attack on any for which he is flanking his opponent, or his opponent is denied Dex bonus to AC. If you're relying on the Invisibility spell, the opponent will only be denied his Dex bonus to AC for one attack, not 'all those attacks'.

-Hyp.