Whispers of the Vampires Blade opinion?

[Vocenoctum]

1. The adventure is not a railroad. A railroad adventure is one in which the adventure forces the PCs down a particular path and cuts off any choices the PCs may wish to make except the ones the author wants them to make. WotVB is linear but it is not a railroad. The adventure basically is a chase.

I have to disagree, and think it is the worst sort of railroading. For the adventure to happen, the players actions have no effect.
I'm a player in the game, and JustKim forgot to mention my obsession with breaking the sword.

No matter what the players do, the adventure presents them as failures. Lucan has extraordinary measures that are somehow prepared before he's there.


and yeah, the adventure titles is a huge spoiler, that's just silly.

 

[Klaus]

Here's an idea of how to add a M. Night Shyamala-ding-dong twist to WotVB (those who are playing it stay out!)

Spoiler

Lucan *isn't* trying to escape to Karrnath. This is all a ploy to attract the PCs, who are not the pursuers, they're the prey!

Y'see, Lucan was turned into a vampire by a Blood of Vol member (BoV is the force behind the Emerald Claw), and has always had the intention of cornering the PCs in the abandoned ziggurat (chosed for its population of aberrations, suitably subdued by a favor of beings from Khyber). Garrow was supposed to help the PCs along the way. But he has a deep envy and hatred for Lucan, since it was he, Garrow, who should've been a vampire, not some turncoat human. That is why Garrow rams the PCs airship with his own. If everyone dies, Garrow can recover the schemas and slay Lucan and take his place in the BoV.

But what the Emerald Claw didn't foresee was the attack from Scimitar and the other agents of the LoBster. And when the PCs (hopefully) slay Lucan, Garrow (now an failure before the BoV's high-ups) sees one last chance of looking good before his masters, by joining forces with the very first enemy of the PCs (who ran afoul with the LoBster during The Forgotten Forge and SotLW, even before they met Garrow).

This makes the whole chase a smoke-and-mirrors ploy, adds much depth to Garrow and to his alliance with Scimitar, and ties the adventure into the schema-plot.

 

[reanjr]

Uh...

Isn't that the one that

Spoiler

can only affect 1 PC, and has a bunch of glowing, dead Emerald Claw guys around it as a warning that something's up? I'm sure that encounter will only kill very foolhardy PCs.

Cheers!

Sweet, that sounds exactly like something my players would get nixed by. I'm playing Whispers tomorrow, and possibly Emerald Claw as well.

 

[reanjr]

Here's an idea of how to add a M. Night Shyamala-ding-dong twist to WotVB

I'll try that out tomorrow and see how it goes.

 

[Sqwonk]

Templates ?

Are there downloadable templates (for miniatures) for the airship?
If not
Has anyone enlarged the template in the module with a photocopier? How many "times bigger" was needed to make the squares 1 inch size for minis?

 

[Khur]

Here's an idea of how to add a M. Night Shyamala-ding-dong twist to WotVB (those who are playing it stay out!)

I said you could make WotVB into something decent. But the problems with your scheme are:

Spoiler

After Garrow rams Cloud's Destiny, it's unlikely he survives the crash of both ships (average fall damage 42, Garrow's hp 32)--at least as he's written in the adventure. The flimsy advice on page 22 (Garrow always has an escape plan) is simply sad—a DM needs to know how he escapes. The solution is as simple as giving him and his key personnel feather tokens or other fix (ala Cloud's Destiny's).

Your scheme also fails to explain how Scimitar knows the PCs' location when they take the lightning rail. If it's divination magic, it's powerful stuff, having anticipated the loss of the airship and the PCs' trajectory after the crash. So, Scimitar's appearance on the rail still makes no sense at all from the presented storyline’s standpoint.

As an aside, why would BoV rely on such a flimsy and expensive scheme to kill the heroes? Much simpler clean-up scenarios exist that needn't leave the area of Sharn. Further, if the Emerald Claw are using this as a plot against the heroes, what happens when the PCs jump aboard Jade’s Fury after missing Cloud’s Destiny? I’ll tell you what happens: adventure over as the Emerald Claw kills the PCs aboard Jade's Fury. Your point about Garrow's jealousy may be able to explain this away, though.

This “interlude” can actually be an initial exchange between the servants of the Lord of Blades and the Emerald Claw. They’re helping the Emerald Claw capture the blade and Lucan to show they’re worthy of other alliances.

As such, you'd be better off saying that Scimitar and Garrow are already allied, and Scimitar is aboard Jade's Fury. Maybe Scimitar’s warforged were part of the “ramming” in an attempt to double-cross Garrow. This never occurs to Garrow after the fact—maybe the weather is bad when the crash occurs*. While Garrow and his operatives hunt for Lucan and the heroes in the wreckage--Cloud's Destiny and Jade's Fury crash about a mile or two apart, allowing the PCs to escape before Garrow's people arrive--Scimitar tracks the survivors (the PCs) to Sterngate (add a ranger to Scimitar's group).

Of course, this assumes the heroes even get this far and don't escape the crash on a skiff. (Even if they do, Scimitar can assume they've gone to Sterngate and just turn out to be right.) It also doesn't work out silly things, such as the dominated guards at every turn or the presence of the halflings aiding Scimitar.

Ultimately, you’re actually altogether better off leaving Garrow out of this adventure. He’s a cardboard insert in it, anyhow. If you use the Emerald Claw at all, make it a secondary team assigned to the task of recovering the blade and Lucan. This secondary association can still be the key to tying Garrow and Scimitar together in the final adventure, assuming Scimitar survives. Of course, the Lord of Blades seems to have a large number of operatives dedicated to the schemas, so yet another one can show up in Grasp of the Emerald Claw.

None of this considers the value of playing up the role of Aundair’s Royal Eyes in the adventure. I’d also recommend working with the role of Calderus and her relationship to the Blood of Vol.

(*That Garrow would actually crash the airship is absurd. He’s smart [the crash is a good way to lose Lucan] and the airship is expensive [organizations always care about that]. But it is exciting. I wouldn’t nix it, just make it make more sense than Garrow madly destroying both ships.)

All of these things can be worked out, but that's my whole point in saying this adventure doesn't hold up as written. Do we expect a new DM to come up with these solutions to the holes this adventure presents?

 

[MerricB]

I said you could make WotVB into something decent. But the problems with your scheme are:

Spoiler

Your scheme also fails to explain how Scimitar knows the PCs' location when they take the lightning rail. If it's divination magic, it's powerful stuff, having anticipated the loss of the airship and the PCs' trajectory after the crash. So, Scimitar's appearance on the rail still makes no sense at all from the presented storyline’s standpoint.

I really don't see the problem.

Spoiler

During the battle at the platform at Sterngate, or during the stopover at the Varirond station, an agent of the Lord of Blades spots the PCs. The Lord of Blades wants revenge on the PCs for their interference during the first two adventures, and so organises the attack on the lightning rail to take them out. The adventure explicitly states the encounter has nothing to do with Lucan

Cheers!

 

[Klaus]

Enough with the black-out text! Here be SPOILERS on how to improved the storyline of WotVB!!!






[you were warned]





Khur: "After Garrow rams Cloud's Destiny, it's unlikely he survives the crash of both ships (average fall damage 42, Garrow's hp 32)--at least as he's written in the adventure. The flimsy advice on page 22 (Garrow always has an escape plan) is simply sad—a DM needs to know how he escapes. The solution is as simple as giving him and his key personnel feather tokens or other fix (ala Cloud's Destiny's)."

Potion of Feather Fall resolves this. Since Garrow is described as always having an escape plan, he'd be unlikely to comandeer an airship without some means of bailing out. His personnel can steal more on Cloud's Destiny.

Khur: "Your scheme also fails to explain how Scimitar knows the PCs' location when they take the lightning rail. If it's divination magic, it's powerful stuff, having anticipated the loss of the airship and the PCs' trajectory after the crash. So, Scimitar's appearance on the rail still makes no sense at all from the presented storyline’s standpoint."

Every warforged could be a potential spy for the LoBster. All it takes is one warforged to hear about the party's journey from Sharn to Trolanport and ask a few questions about what happened at the docking bay of Cloud's Destiny and messages could be sent to Scimitar to aprehend and slay all but one of the PCs. Final messengers, whispering wind and other means of communication are available to the Lord of Blades. And Scimitar could be trailing them since Saber's (or Cutlass') death. Or since the PCs ventured into Whitehearth in SotLW.

Khur:"As an aside, why would BoV rely on such a flimsy and expensive scheme to kill the heroes? Much simpler clean-up scenarios exist that needn't leave the area of Sharn. Further, if the Emerald Claw are using this as a plot against the heroes, what happens when the PCs jump aboard Jade’s Fury after missing Cloud’s Destiny? I’ll tell you what happens: adventure over as the Emerald Claw kills the PCs aboard Jade's Fury. Your point about Garrow's jealousy may be able to explain this away, though."

But the Emerald Claw isn't out to kill them outright. They want to learn all they know about the schemas. If the PCs board Jade's Fury, Rorwag asks questions trying to ascertain what the PCs know. After they are sent to Cloud's Destiny, Rorwag orders his raiders to attack and kill all the PCs (since he knows how much they learned on the schemas) and also to kill Lucan (who he hates). The original plan was to ambush the PCs at the ziguratt and have Lucan turn at least one into a vampire minion, but Garrow won't allow Lucan to do that, fearing for his standing in the Blood of Vol. With some eyes-of-the-eagle item, he keeps tabs on the fighting, and as soon as he sees the PCs overpowering his raiders, he snaps, ramming the other ship, quaffing a potion of feather falling and bailing out. He hopes the fall will cover up his selfish attempt to destroy the plan of turning a PC (or all) into a vampire.

Since Lucan doesn't know Garrow caused the crash on purpose, he assumes the PCs are responsible, and improvises. He takes the Lightining Rail and jumps off when he closes in on the ziggurat. He arrives, expecting to find Garrow and the other Emerald Claw soldiers there to back him up, but these never arrive. So he makes a last stand, severed from humanity, abandoning his sister and (apparently) betrayed by the Blood of Vol.

Scimitar and her strike team (I'd leave off the halflings, though) want revenge on the PCs and are instructed to take one (and only one) alive to the Lord of Blades. Her sudden attack on the Rail makes Lucan even more nervous. And you can have Garrow (disguised as a passenger) witness the attack and approach Scimitar after the PCs jump off after Lucan.

Oh, and the Dark Lantern commander that hires the PCs in the first place? Also Garrow. If/when the PCs return with the sword, they find the address empty. If they ask about the commander, they learn that the commander has been away on a diplomatic mission for the past month.

 

[JustKim]

I don't think the underlying story is what needs fixing in Whispers. If you add in too many plot twists it may make the experience worse, because the players may feel they're being railroaded not only for story progression but for DM amusement. Certainly making the story deeper is not for player benefit since the underlying story never arises in a sense that the PCs can follow it during the adventure- that's one of the reasons Garrow is such a weak recurring enemy (Along with the aforementioned genius plans that're never described).

 

[Emirikol]

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jh