Jehosephat
First Post
ForceUser said:
IMO, every vampire movie made in the last 20 years has elements of World of Darkness. Likewise, many of the stereotypes used in WOD aren't exactly WW originals. I see alot of cliches being used.
White Wolf sues Sony over the movie "Underworld"
- Thread starter MEG Hal
- Start date
IMO, every vampire movie made in the last 20 years has elements of World of Darkness. Likewise, many of the stereotypes used in WOD aren't exactly WW originals. I see alot of cliches being used.
reiella
Explorer
More or less, and the more I look at the sources/inspirations lines in the WhiteWolf World of Darkness books, the more it becomes kinda oddly obvious that they are hardly unique. That said, from what I've read so far, the suit is possibly more so on a story that practically mirrors on they had published beforehand. Will wait to see more information come out though.
Desdichado
Hero
As unlikely as it is, I'd like to see Sony put the smackdown on White Wolf. Frivolous lawsuits piss me off.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Frankly, anyone who is leaping to the conclusion that this suit is frivolous--or to the opposite conclusion, that Sony is a bunch of thieves--needs to seriously slow down, take a deep breath, and try to gather some real information before drawing their lines in the sand.
WW isn't suing because the movie uses vampires and werewolves. That would be a no-brainer. They are claiming 17 specific counts of copyright infringement, and 60 specific points of overlapping details. To simply assume that their case is flawed or frivolous, when none of us know what those details are, is foolish. Ditto to assume that Sony knowingly stole the material. Even if it turns out to be plagiarized, odds are most of the Sony execs have never even heard of White Wolf, and the responsible party is a screenwriter or three.
Until and unless we actually learn what the specific points of conention are--and all we know so far is they include, among other things, similarities to one of Nancy Collins' published stories--casting blame is just an exercise in futility.
WW isn't suing because the movie uses vampires and werewolves. That would be a no-brainer. They are claiming 17 specific counts of copyright infringement, and 60 specific points of overlapping details. To simply assume that their case is flawed or frivolous, when none of us know what those details are, is foolish. Ditto to assume that Sony knowingly stole the material. Even if it turns out to be plagiarized, odds are most of the Sony execs have never even heard of White Wolf, and the responsible party is a screenwriter or three.
Until and unless we actually learn what the specific points of conention are--and all we know so far is they include, among other things, similarities to one of Nancy Collins' published stories--casting blame is just an exercise in futility.
Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
If there are distinct "tribes" of Werewolves, "clans" of vampires, and werewolves have the least bit of eco-terrorism in them... not so frivolous...
Klaatu B. Nikto
First Post
Previous possibly frivolous lawsuits, which most probably know about were:
Viacom suing White Wolf because of the similarity between the Aeon RPG and Aeon Flux cartoon thus the namechange to Trinity.
Todd MacFarland suing Palladium Books because of the similarity between the Nightspawn RPG and Todd's Spawn thus the namechange to Nightbane.
Shelton 'Spike' Lee suing Viacom for the name change of TNN to Spike TV. Settled out of court I think since Spike TV is on the air.
Now this lawsuit may be more legit unless there's a lot of coincidences. Like others have said, I'd want more concrete proof before deciding which side is in the wrong.
Viacom suing White Wolf because of the similarity between the Aeon RPG and Aeon Flux cartoon thus the namechange to Trinity.
Todd MacFarland suing Palladium Books because of the similarity between the Nightspawn RPG and Todd's Spawn thus the namechange to Nightbane.
Shelton 'Spike' Lee suing Viacom for the name change of TNN to Spike TV. Settled out of court I think since Spike TV is on the air.
Now this lawsuit may be more legit unless there's a lot of coincidences. Like others have said, I'd want more concrete proof before deciding which side is in the wrong.
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reapersaurus
First Post
mouseferatu - that was a nice breath of fresh common sense and propriety thrown into this thread.
But don't you know? Internet message boards are not for guarded concerns and cautiousness -they're for disseminating wild statements and jumping to conclusions where there is very little facts.
Here's my opinion:
IF.. I repeat IF Underworld is as close in similarity to WW's world as it LOOKS like it is, than I say Good job, WW for standing up to Sony for not even bothering to give you any credit for something so shamelessly taken from your inspiration.
WW is not just "about vampires and werewolves" - there is a particular urban style and particular plot points about the relationships of the clans and vampires and werewolves that I'm shocked that Sony tried to (perhaps) lift without even so much as a hint of "based on" or "inspired by" and the like.
Almost every slightly-knowledegable gamer I can think of, after seeing the trailer to Underworld, IMMEDIATELY thought "White Wolf", or "Vampire: the Masquerade" etc. The similarity doesn't appear to be just surface, same-genre stuff.
In fact, (on the surface) I can't think of a more blatant-copyright infraction in major media source material in a long time...
I think it was colossaly arrogant of Sony to throw a movie like Underworld out there and not talk to WW about it, or expect everyone to look over to WW and say, Hey - you gonna do something about this?"
That all said, I am REALLY looking forward to Underworld and hope it's very successful.
But don't you know? Internet message boards are not for guarded concerns and cautiousness -they're for disseminating wild statements and jumping to conclusions where there is very little facts.
Here's my opinion:
IF.. I repeat IF Underworld is as close in similarity to WW's world as it LOOKS like it is, than I say Good job, WW for standing up to Sony for not even bothering to give you any credit for something so shamelessly taken from your inspiration.
WW is not just "about vampires and werewolves" - there is a particular urban style and particular plot points about the relationships of the clans and vampires and werewolves that I'm shocked that Sony tried to (perhaps) lift without even so much as a hint of "based on" or "inspired by" and the like.
Almost every slightly-knowledegable gamer I can think of, after seeing the trailer to Underworld, IMMEDIATELY thought "White Wolf", or "Vampire: the Masquerade" etc. The similarity doesn't appear to be just surface, same-genre stuff.
In fact, (on the surface) I can't think of a more blatant-copyright infraction in major media source material in a long time...
I think it was colossaly arrogant of Sony to throw a movie like Underworld out there and not talk to WW about it, or expect everyone to look over to WW and say, Hey - you gonna do something about this?"
That all said, I am REALLY looking forward to Underworld and hope it's very successful.
jdavis
First Post
You'd be suprised at how much of this stuff happens and gets caught before it becomes a mess. Just because every gamer saw the promo and thought White Wolf, I'm sure that most Sony executives didn't have a clue. You would have to go back to the actual screenplay writer to know for sure, as big as World of Darkness is in gaming it's just not all that big a deal in the general public, it's just that crazy game where people dress up like vampires. If they can produce a previously existing short story that is the same or very similar to the storyline of the movie then this isn't a frivolous lawsuit, being as the movie is not out yet it would be imposible for any of us to make that call yet.
As far as why it took them so long to sue, well how could they sue over "17 counts of copyright infringement" and "over 60 points of unique similarity" unless they had had time to review the film, if they have that many direct points then how could they get them unless they had reviewed the material, and how could they review the material before they knew it existed. Lets face it how would they have known if there was infringement before they were infringed upon? If they never saw the script before it was made then how would they know to check to see if it was a match for one of their old short stories? They probably saw the film preview like the rest of us and decided to look into it. Once again that's only speculation as we don't even know half the story here.
As far as why it took them so long to sue, well how could they sue over "17 counts of copyright infringement" and "over 60 points of unique similarity" unless they had had time to review the film, if they have that many direct points then how could they get them unless they had reviewed the material, and how could they review the material before they knew it existed. Lets face it how would they have known if there was infringement before they were infringed upon? If they never saw the script before it was made then how would they know to check to see if it was a match for one of their old short stories? They probably saw the film preview like the rest of us and decided to look into it. Once again that's only speculation as we don't even know half the story here.
reapersaurus
First Post
Just for a lark:
Here's the exact text for Underworld on my local paper's Entertainment page: http://www.sacticket.com/cgi-bin/ticketclub/ticketclub.cgi?app=4
Here's the exact text for Underworld on my local paper's Entertainment page: http://www.sacticket.com/cgi-bin/ticketclub/ticketclub.cgi?app=4
Naw, that's not "reminiscent" of a particular game, is it?
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