White Wolfs pay to play deal...

[mcrow]

I know that this is a d20 forum but check this out: http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19615


What do you think would happen if WotC did the same with their d20 games? Notice that even if you all chiped in for pizza or something you would have to have the game liscensed. Since I don't think (and I might be wrong) there are not nearly as many people who LARP WotC games as WW games it wouldn't likely have the same affect but it would still suck. They force the GM to going their "fan club" in order to get the liscense and all the player also have to join as well. $20/member just so you can share a pizza? Now I'm sure that noone is going to enforce this policy and WW is just doing it to cover their but leaglly but this is just stupid.

 

[Garnfellow]

I know that this is a d20 forum but check this out: http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19615


What do you think would happen if WotC did the same with their d20 games? Notice that even if you all chiped in for pizza or something you would have to have the game liscensed. Since I don't think (and I might be wrong) there are not nearly as many people who LARP WotC games as WW games it wouldn't likely have the same affect but it would still suck. They force the GM to going their "fan club" in order to get the liscense and all the player also have to join as well. $20/member just so you can share a pizza? Now I'm sure that noone is going to enforce this policy and WW is just doing it to cover their but leaglly but this is just stupid.

Wow. That might be the single dumbest thing I have ever, ever seen in gaming. And this hobby has such a long and varied history of dumb things. I can't see these unlicensed games being a serious problem to anything, and I can't see this policy doing anything to change it. It seems WW can gain nothing from a policy like this except bad publicity.

Congrats, White Wolf!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

What do you think would happen if WotC did the same with their d20 games? Notice that even if you all chiped in for pizza or something you would have to have the game liscensed.

From my reading, this isn't true. It would only be true if you structured it a very specific way. i.e. you charged players to play, then used that money to buy the pizza. Just as easily (and the usual case with D&D), there is no charge on the game, and everyone simply buys lunch together. I'm sure you can see the distinction.

Since I don't think (and I might be wrong) there are not nearly as many people who LARP WotC games as WW games it wouldn't likely have the same affect but it would still suck. They force the GM to going their "fan club" in order to get the liscense and all the player also have to join as well. $20/member just so you can share a pizza? Now I'm sure that noone is going to enforce this policy and WW is just doing it to cover their but leaglly but this is just stupid.

It can't really be applied to D&D, because (as far as I know), there aren't organizations out there charging players to play D&D. Notice that a convention fee is exempt from the policy. Only should players be charged a specific fee at the convention above and beyond the entrance price, or individual groups charge their members for each game, would the policy kick in, requiring (in the case of D&D) the charging organization to get a license from WotC/Hasbro.

I can understand why White Wolf is starting the new policy. As you say, it's a legal matter. People are charging other people for using their product. If they don't have a piece of that (as I understand it), their copyright is in danger of being nullified. (Since if you don't zealously protect your copyright, you lose it.)

But the whole issue is about the commercial use of White Wolf's products. And while every once in a while someone starts up a thread about "DM's for Hire"...it's my understanding that D&D is still a free game for the overwhelming majority of players. No commercial use means this will never come up for D&D.

 

[HellHound]

I don't see 'chipping in for pizza' as counting as a fee collected. Nor have I seen it stated as such in the statement from WW.

 

[stevelabny]

i'm pretty sure theres a difference between "charging" players for a game, and the players chipping in to buy books/ minis/ pizza.

but IANAL.
yes.
i've ALWAYS wanted to say that.

 

[radferth]

Well, Nightfall, should we pony up $20 in hopes of adding local LARPers to our existing Scarred Lands campaigns? If I were 20 years younger and single I'd've considered it for the chicks. Its not like I was going to spend that 20 bucks on dating back then.

 

[Michael Morris]

Yep, I do believe this is candidate for dumb move of the year award.

WotC already has two organized play structures - the DCI and the RPGA. The RPGA they inherited from TSR and has been generally turned over to Ryan Dancey. The DCI however does have a structured system for sanctioned events. However, even those events run with a profit sharing structure with the tournament organizers.

White Wolf would be best served by trying to follow the path of the DCI and offering sanctioned events as a new thing rather than trying to force every pay to play event to pay them a fee. By taking that route they can set a premium on the sanctioned events - have legal ground to stand on, and most importantly they wouldn't come off looking like an ogre.

The only thing this move will net them is bad press.

EDIT: It should be noted that the DCI has all but hedged out non-sanctioned events due to the high prizes they are able to offer (indeed, they have "professional players", a phenomena not seen and likely to never be seen in RPG's) participants. While non-sanctioned events do occur, they are the minority and don't get much attention.

 

[Crothian]

I can understand why they are doing it. They are seeing people charging money to use their books and they want a piece oif the pie. Now, I'm not sure how WW is going to enforce this and I'm in agreement that it is not a good move; but I can see their motivations very easily.

 

[HellHound]

I disagree on the "dumb move of the year" item.

We just finished watching the court case between Marvel & City of Heroes. White Wolf -HAS- to show that they are attempting to enforce their trademark, otherwise they lose the ability to sue other companies over its misuse.

That said, I don't think that WW has anyintention of actually enforcing this contract. In my opinion, it exists exactly so they DON'T have to enforce it in order to maintain their trademarks.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Now, I'm not sure how WW is going to enforce this

I'd do it by sending notice to gaming stores that rent out rooms.


The merit of pay-for-play we can debate, but that's at least one way to enforce it.