Who’s fault is it when movies with money seem low budget?

"Who’s fault is it when movies with money seem low budget?"
This is a huge fail on lots of levels, but the seems fake one seems the signature, and is a hallmark of low budget sci-fi and fantasy, so what are the key things to focus on when you have a low budget to not look as bad as this movie with a budget?

I would assume Director, Editor and Cinematographer would be most directly to blame for that. I suppose sound design could also be a factor
Good thought. If we're actually looking to assign blame, I think the pertinent bits would be:
  • Director seems to be the role with overall responsibility over a movie.
  • If a scene was bad and should have had a second take or re-shoot, the cinematographer or director-on-set would be the one supposed to realize this and make the call.
  • The Producer's role is to get everything done. If a movie was rushed or if there wasn't enough lighting or there was one makeup person for ten different characters all on screen at once or the actor who loses five pounds as the day goes on doesn't have two versions of their outfit or whatever, the responsibility chain stops with them.
  • The individual departments or posts (such as cinematographer, lighting director, stunt coordinator, etc.) are responsible for those specific aspects of the film.
  • Ultimately, everyone who invested in and greenlit the project ought to have been making sure they had competent people at every step of the way. This leads into the weird way movies are financed (/used as losses to offset gains for tax purposes) and how too many people in the process are fine with the overall product not making money.
 

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Ryujin

Legend
Frequently movies suffer from a "too many cooks" issue. This generally comes down to producers meddling with the original concept. They're paying the bills, so they get final say. While I did like the final product of "Knights of Badassdom" I have been told, by people whose opinions I trust, that the version that was pre producer meddling would have been much better.

(To give an idea of the scope of what's involved, I should soon be adding to my extremely limited IMDB credits as one of something like FIFTY producers [associate producer] on a project. And watch the list of producers on Star Trek: Picard, some time, and be baffled.)
 

Bedrockgames

I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
Frequently movies suffer from a "too many cooks" issue. This generally comes down to producers meddling with the original concept. They're paying the bills, so they get final say. While I did like the final product of "Knights of Badassdom" I have been told, by people whose opinions I trust, that the version that was pre producer meddling would have been much better.

(To give an idea of the scope of what's involved, I should soon be adding to my extremely limited IMDB credits as one of something like FIFTY producers [associate producer] on a project. And watch the list of producers on Star Trek: Picard, some time, and be baffled.)

I was curious about a catchy song I heard the other day and wanted to know if the artists involved wrote it as well (It just had the feel of something the artists wrote). I was surprised that it had something like 20 writers (I may be exaggerating a bit but not by much). It was still a good song, and I like it. But I kept thinking: how do 20 people contribute to a song and get songwriting credit (only so many aspects of a song are even open to songwriting credit)
 

Ryujin

Legend
I was curious about a catchy song I heard the other day and wanted to know if the artists involved wrote it as well (It just had the feel of something the artists wrote). I was surprised that it had something like 20 writers (I may be exaggerating a bit but not by much). It was still a good song, and I like it. But I kept thinking: how do 20 people contribute to a song and get songwriting credit (only so many aspects of a song are even open to songwriting credit)
I expect there are many songs, especially pop songs, that have similar origins. They sure feel like they're "written by committee" and there are well known formulas for creating a popular song.

On the money aspects of film production, I remind people of the Poul Anderson quote, "An elephant is a mouse designed to government specifications."
 

The big thing missing from this discussion is executive producers.

A producer can be anyone - there have been people credited as producers who literally weren't aware the film or show was being made.

But an executive producer means there's some actual involvement with the show - now that exact level of involvement varies, but in a lot of cases it means both organising funding, and to a greater or lesser extent influencing how that funding is actually used. This is increasingly true, as I understand it.

With TV shows, the showrunner or showrunners are typically executive producers as well as writers, and more rarely, directors. And the buck, ultimately, is generally going to stop with them, as to whether a show looks cheap.

With movies, the director may or may not also be an EP, but depending on the movie, the studio, whether it's part of a franchise/existing IP or original, and whether the director is a director famous and followed in their own right or not all influence who actually gets to determine how the money is spent (among other things). Usually the director is basically to blame (the cinematographer and DP answer to the director, as do others, you can't blame them, generally speaking), or and where the buck stops.

It's worth noting that even with movies, EPs have often interfered with movies, to the point of really annoying a lot of directors, and in the view of certain directors "ruining" a number of movies. And they've certainly contributed to movies looking "cheaper". Kevin Feige, for example, I know people love him, but he insisted on putting some really awful colour grading on a bunch of MCU movies, often over some degree of objection (mild to strong) from the actual director(s) of the movie in question, which to me, unquestionably made some of them look both cheaper and more artificial. And that's a mild example - editing can really impact a movie and a number of EPs have decided they were going to do the final edit, not the director.

But to return to the first question, with a movie like Doom, the reason it looks cheap is probably going to be a combination of director and budget. $60m was a decent amount for "a movie" in 2005, but it wasn't crazy money.

Compare it to some other 2005 films:
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire - $150m
King Kong - $207m
War of the Worlds - $132m
Batman Begin - $150m
Mr and Mrs Smith - $110m

$60m is at the very low end for a 2005 sci-fi action movie. So I think the main reason Doom looks cheap is that they were pushing the budget a bit to do what they did.

Now interestingly Sin City that year did manage to fairly fantastic on $40m, but shooting B&W and going for a highly artificial look clearly helped it a lot.

Who is to blame there? The director I think in the end choose to make the decision that lead to the Doom movie looking how it did. He could have toned things down - he have got the script changed to make it less flashy and more tense, which is pretty much always cheaper - he could have picked ways of shooting that didn't make it look cheap.

With something like Wheel of Time the buck stops with the showrunner who decided to make it so location-heavy. Location shooting is incredibly expensive. The trouble is it's a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't. You want to shoot a fantasy show in HD and make it look convincing? You're going to need a lot of $$$ and you're going to need a ton of location shooting, a ton of CGI, or both. The large and diverse array of costumes, which needed to be good enough to work on HD TV probably didn't help (and some were, but some really weren't).

Wheel of Time was also not as overbudgeted as people seem to think - it essentially got hit by the COVID tax.

There is another culprit in making a lot of stuff look cheap, though, who we have all so far overlooked.

Motion Smoothing.

No a strangely named Hollywood exec, but a feature most people's TVs, particularly 120hz TVs, have and which with very many TVs defaults to on, and even if turned off, likes to find exotic ways to turn itself back on. Motion smoothing will make anything look cheap. Indeed it is particularly good at making everything look like it's on a set (which to be fair, it usually is) and any kind of framerate above 30 seems to be pretty good at making props look cheap (you can fight this, but it requires special attention and using very realistic-looking props - more realistic than most movies/shows us).

Several times I've come across someone saying "X looks cheap" or whatever, and it turns out that motion smoothing had been engaged when they watched it. A friend of mine did this a few years back - turned down the lights, switched the TV to the pre-configured "movie" mode, which engaged a bunch of stuff, but which inexplicably or possibly through the work of the devil or demiurge or similar, turned on motion smoothing. I spotted it pretty quickly, but he was very sure it wasn't on because he'd turned it off. I have another friend who actively turns on motion smoothing - I don't take his advice re: anything about aesthetics or movies/TV!

As a bonus, many TVs rename motion smoothing in order to make it sound like it's some kind of exotic cool feature you want on, which is pretty evil imho.
 

MGibster

Legend
While I did like the final product of "Knights of Badassdom" I have been told, by people whose opinions I trust, that the version that was pre producer meddling would have been much better.
I wondered what happened with this movie. I didn't like it because I felt as though the people making it couldn't decide what kind of movie they were trying to make. Was it a comedy? Was it a horror movie? It failed on both counts for me.
 

But to return to the first question, with a movie like Doom, the reason it looks cheap is probably going to be a combination of director and budget. $60m was a decent amount for "a movie" in 2005, but it wasn't crazy money.
It's 13 times more than the reboot, Doom: Annihilation, which actually looked good
 

When in doubt, blame Uwe Boll. Straight 50% chance that you're right.
I have respect for Uwe Boll because he said in an interview he would rather take the $60M and make three movies rather than flush it all on one. There's just a lot of waste in film making - or companies paying themselves, as we saw in Peter Jackson's lawsuit against New Line over LotR making no profit.
 

MGibster

Legend
I have respect for Uwe Boll because he said in an interview he would rather take the $60M and make three movies rather than flush it all on one. There's just a lot of waste in film making - or companies paying themselves, as we saw in Peter Jackson's lawsuit against New Line over LotR making no profit.
Has Boll ever made a good movie? I don't mean one that might be so bad it's good, but a genuinely good movie.
 

I have respect for Uwe Boll because he said in an interview he would rather take the $60M and make three movies rather than flush it all on one. There's just a lot of waste in film making - or companies paying themselves, as we saw in Peter Jackson's lawsuit against New Line over LotR making no profit.
There's definitely a lot of sketchy accounting in Hollywood. I heard somewhere that most of the Star Wars movies officially "lost money" according to the studio accountants. They lost so much money thet they decided to go ahead and make eleven of them.
 

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