Who Actually Has Time for Bloated Adventures?

[FitzTheRuke]

It is a sort of vicious circle though, that if they are not a good read, then people rate them poorly, so they have to be a good read, either way, if one is going to sell them.

Right! My point is more... there's gotta be a way for them to be a "good read" and still be formatted in such a way to facilitate running them. Personally, I think that I'd find them a "better read" if they were formatted differently than they are.

Now, I obviously haven't tried to thread that needle myself. I just think it ought to be possible.

 

[dragoner]

Right! My point is more... there's gotta be a way for them to be a "good read" and still be formatted in such a way to facilitate running them. Personally, I think that I'd find them a "better read" if they were formatted differently than they are.

Now, I obviously haven't tried to thread that needle myself. I just think it ought to be possible.

You are not wrong. I think a lot of writers write what they know, and if they hire an editor they are probably coming over from the literary side, and editing that way. Who knows though?

 

[BrokenTwin]

Paizo APs could definitely be written to be more at-table friendly while still being a decent coffee table read, but it's probably just a case of they're used to doing it a certain way and it's not worth the cost and risk to try a different method.

 

[Retreater]

I don't see a big shift in big budget adventure design since the late TSR era (except for Delve formats and 4e, which were abandoned). I don't find them especially useful at a table - which should kinda be the point

 

[Jd Smith1]

I don't know about modern Paizo campaigns but the 3.x era ones I read were very similar to what WotC put out but with more stuff. A lot more side quests and faction politics but at the heart it was go there collect plot coupon that unlocks the next layer. The main movers and shakers were hidden behind layers of cat's paws and fronts. You could skip a lot and still cover the main plot.

Yeah. Pathfinder is not a system I would use. I do like their maps.

 

[Jd Smith1]

The only problem with this approach (which I generally endorse otherwise) is that when - not if, but when - the players take a complete left turn in session 6 there's 14 sessions of prep gone by the boards and now I'm winging it.

Yeah, that happens frequently. So I either add new material, or just file off the serial numbers, change the motivations, and serve up what I have.

I also don't assign loot when I do scenarios well in advance; I add the loot when it looks like that scenario is going to come out of the bullpen.

For example, this coming week has the party wrapping up an extended operation. I have three scenarios ready, and its up to the players to choose which bread crumbs to follow. Necessity will ultimately make all three urgent tasks, while preserving a 'sandbox' feel.

An important factor in a campaign is to ensure that the PCs always have some faction that wants them, as individuals, dead. Often more than one. (and the players will certainly generate more themselves). That makes the PCs (somewhat) more predictable.

 

[John Dallman]

How long does the average campaign last? These days especially, I don't expect a campaign to run more than 6 months at most and I've got a regular group of people I meet with once a week. I hear about campaigns lasting years, but I've never participated in one of those before.

It varies widely. The last long campaign I ran lasted about 170 fortnightly sessions; the one I ran after that less than 20.

 

[payn]

Yeah, it's a sad flaw to the fact that a lot of people buy adventures to read them, and not to run them. The end result is: They sell better if they're a good read. SO... adventure writers write them with this in mind.

Whereas, if they wrote them to be easy to run, we'd have much, much better adventures.

I can't help but think (wish) that there is some happy medium. Personally, I want to RUN adventures, not read them. I can't imagine that an adventure written to be run would HAVE to be bad to read. I mean, I don't quite understand why anyone who wants to just read them wouldn't buy a book. I actually think that if they were done really well TO BE RUN, then the reader-types would probably still enjoy them.

I think this is vastly overstated and taken out of context. I believe the "meant to be read; not run" is referring to the amount of supplemental fiction on top of the adventure material included in the APs. It gives them a little more value for the subscribers that don't have the time, group, etc.. to run them all.

I think folks often make the mistake of thinking an AP is like a adventure module. It is not anything like that. It is a full blown campaign that includes a lot of setting material and story background. The AP modules are kits that include so much more than a hook, dungeon, and monsters. They are not easy to run, nor are they meant to be.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is one of those things that's always going to vary considerably. I don't personally consider a time frame less than about six hours at a sitting to let me do anything worthwhile as a player or a GM, and don't have much of any normal space for games longer than a one-off that run less than about 30-50 sessions as a GM (in theory they can run longer than that, but the players and/or I usually get interested in moving on sometime around then). A full length Paizo AP fits in that relatively well.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think this is vastly overstated and taken out of context. I believe the "meant to be read; not run" is referring to the amount of supplemental fiction on top of the adventure material included in the APs. It gives them a little more value for the subscribers that don't have the time, group, etc.. to run them all.

If that's the case, then it should be very easy to make the adventure-parts formatted to be run, and the "supplemental fiction"-parts read for lore. But they don't really format them that way, do they?

I think folks often make the mistake of thinking an AP is like a adventure module. It is not anything like that.

Which begs the question: Why is it not like that?

It is a full blown campaign that includes a lot of setting material and story background. The AP modules are kits that include so much more than a hook, dungeon, and monsters. They are not easy to run, nor are they meant to be.

Why would they be purposefully not easy to run? Or at least "not meant to be" (run easily)? That makes no sense to me.