Who are Howard and Leiber?

[Gentlegamer]

I tend to agree with the Epicurean from Seamus Heaney's country . . . there are only a few true classics.

To me, the classics to which all D&D players need to be introduced are, in historical order:
- The Odyssey. (In a pinch, hope they've at least seen "Troy", "Jason and the Argonauts", "Empire", or any other sandals and togas type movie.)
- Beowulf, preferably the Seamus Heaney version
- Robin Hood, preferably the 1930s Errol Flynn movie version
- The Knights of the Round-Table, preferably Monty Python's version
- The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings
- Star Wars
- Conan the Barbarian (198x movie)
- The 13th Warrior (Beowulf reinterpreted)
- LOTR movies

That's a complete education, IMHO.

Lots of things are good for extra credit, like H.P. Lovecraft, "Willow", "Braveheart", those little Osprey books, or watching "Battlefield Britain" . . .

Dude, how could you make such a list and not include Hawk the Slayer?

 

[Gentlegamer]

You are undoubtedly referring to the Shanarra books. In defense of T. Brooks, I would have to point out that what some percieve as ripping off JRRT is not neccessarily the case.

Tolkien's originality lay in his creation of new languages, and that while his prose is beautiful, his plot points were clearly derived from other sources. Many elements of his opus can be found in Grimm's Fairy tales and the numerous epics from the various literatures of Europe. Tolkien's masterstroke was that he was able to synthesize a new tale in a relatively new form (the Novel) that nonetheless echoed the familiar stories of legend. He took old forms and gave sent them in some slightly different directions, while simultaneously widening the scope of the tales- of all the epics, few beyond the Illiad have so grand a stage.

The thing is, Tolkien's work did not erase that original source material from existence, and any other subsequent author is as free as he was to mine the same literary veins. Brooks does use some of the same imagery as JRRT, but whether his source was Tolkien or the same epics the man himself used only T. Brooks knows for sure. Furthermore, he has added his own new trope to fantasy, unique AFAIK: Shannara is a magical post-apocalyptic world- but his world of magic succeeded the world of science, not the other way around as it is usually done.

(For the record- I've enjoyed the Shanarra books immensely, but even I'll admit that Brooks' prose is but a candle to Tolkien's bonfire...)

Tolkien was creating a "true story" from which the other stories were derived over time (Sleeping Beauty = Eowyn, Atlantis = Numenore, etc.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Tolkien was creating a "true story" from which the other stories were derived over time (Sleeping Beauty = Eowyn, Atlantis = Numenore, etc.)

Your point is?

 

[mhacdebhandia]

(For the record- I've enjoyed the Shanarra books immensely, but even I'll admit that Brooks' prose is but a candle to Tolkien's bonfire...)

And Tolkien's prose is but a bonfire to the blazing suns of most gifted prose writers. Agreed.

 

[Agback]

The '60s and '70s is actually where S&S takes a serious plunge into mediocrity, with a few notable exceptions (Moorcock, Karl Edward Wagner, Poul Anderson).

Poul Anderson is Golden Age writer, not a 'Sixties newcomer. Three Hearts and Three Lions was published in 1961, but it was very far from being Anderson's first fantasy novel. The Broken Sword came out in '54, for example, and Vault of the Ages in 1952. Little surprise then that he was immune from the fads of the time.

 

[MerricB]

Your players didn't groom their henchmen to "replace" them in the event of a death?

Not at the time. Either there were too many PCs, or *everyone* died.

I've seen more henchmen in 3e than 1e, actually.

Cheers!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mini-Hijack:

jaerdaph, were you ever connected with Trinity University's Philosopy Department?

 

[MonsterMash]

Speaking of authors who have played D&D, what about Raymond Feist? Or David Brin? Or even Steven Brust? There's a lot more too, but those are some "big" names.

I'll be honest and say I didn't know that they had - I know China Mieville has talked about reading monster books for D&D as inspiration.

I'll have to check out Brust some time.

 

[Hussar]

Well, based on Barsoomecore's glowing recomendation, I just ordered a Brust from Amazon. Just noticed too that the new Thieves World anthology includes a story by Brust. So, if it sucks, I know who to blame.