Who can be a superior archer-extraordinaire: A Ranger or Fighter?

[mikebr99]

Second, for this discussion the topic was a better archer Fighter or Ranger? Relying on the opponent to be on the favored enemies list isn't going to always happen (possibly never happen), thus I didn't even address Ranger fighting favored enemy vs Fighter fighting said ranger's favored enemy.
Vraille Darkfang

Respectfully, Class abilities should be part of these discussions... and if your DM doesn't allow the use of the Favored Enemy ability often, that is a problem you have with him, not the class. That would be like removing the armor feats from the fighter.

Now which is better? Ranger or naked Fighter?


Mike

 

[Plane Sailing]

Second, for this discussion the topic was a better archer Fighter or Ranger? Relying on the opponent to be on the favored enemies list isn't going to always happen (possibly never happen), thus I didn't even address Ranger fighting favored enemy vs Fighter fighting said ranger's favored enemy.

Hi Vraille,

I was mostly kidding you on the remark about the ranger only being as good as a warrior (when he is already up by three archery feats over what the warrior can get, quite beside the other class abilities).

However, I was also obliquely making the point that "best" is quite subjective, and I was moving the debate to include not just "best for a PC who wants to do as much damage as possible using archery" but also "best for a DM to use as a threat to challenge the PCs".

I hope you will agree that these are two distinct categories. Furthermore, it is a distinction during which the rangers favoured enemy ability certainly is germane.

Regards,

 

[Bauglir]

Where's the Peerless Archer from?

Thanks in advance.

Peerless Archer is indeed, as Darklone said from Silver Marches, which is a Forgotten Realms supplement. It gains ranged sneak attack (much like the Oobi but at a rate of 1d6/4 levels) as well as the ability to craft magical arrows, power attack with a bow, threaten with a bow (at a small range) and ignore some degree of concealment

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Hi Vraille,

I was mostly kidding you on the remark about the ranger only being as good as a warrior (when he is already up by three archery feats over what the warrior can get, quite beside the other class abilities).

I hope you will agree that these are two distinct categories. Furthermore, it is a distinction during which the rangers favoured enemy ability certainly is germane.

Regards,

I was also exaggerated about the warrior/ranger remark. I probably shouldn't have even posted the way I did. Because I think these discussions are sort of silly. As I breifly mentioned anyone can come up with a situation where X factors make class Y better. Personally, I usually prefer to play a Ranger over a Fighter because I have a better time devolping a ranger's personality over time. But, given a one-on-one match up a fighter tends to have an advantage over a ranger of equal level. Actually he was a larger advantage than an ranger vs a warrior of the same level.

Now in a wilderness setting, the ranger's skill selection will give him an advantage over a fighter of equal level.

The whole point (not made clearly on my part) is that D&D is fundamently a Role-Playing game not a wrestling cage match. This "I choose you pokepaladin" nature of discussion I find somewhat interesting, but ultimately futile.

As for favored enemies. It is a valid thing to consider, but it is up to the DM & Player to make sure the Favored Enemy actually matters. For example, if a ranger has a favored enemy of abberrations, then the DM should throw them at the party now & again. On the other hand, if a Player takes Gnoll, and the DM informs him Gnolls are very rare, then he shouldn't complain.

Sum up; Ranger/Fighter/Warrior; Warrior is inferior to both, Fighter better at Fighting, Ranger has good selection of other useful talents to make up for it. Favored Enemy does matter, but it might not come into play (if it never does, your DM ain't doing it right).

Later,
Vraille Darkfang

 

[Darklone]

Another POV (houserules): If you use the houserule that max Dex bonus limits anything, not just Dex bonus to AC, the ranger is usually better as archer than a fighter.

 

[Votan]

As for the other prestige classes, it really depends upon what version of them you're using. If you're using the 3.5 versions, Order of the Bow Initiate is a pretty poor choice.

Why?

Precise shot +5d8 seems like a good choice for punching through DR (this is 3.5 where there are a lot of different types of DR). It has full BAB and 2 good saves. Three archery feats vs. 5 feats for 10 levels of fighter.

Okay, it's skill points are terrible but no class can have everything.

Anyway, I was curious as I was seeing it as the best of the archer PrCs.

 

[Arc]

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the Targeteer, a variant fighter from Dragon 310 (not sure, it's on of the 31? issues). It can select, as a bonus feat, a few extremely broken class abilities. Like, say, adding Dexterity to all ranged damage rolls, instead of the occasional strength bonus with mighty composite longbows. Or an extension of the rapid shot chain that led to 3 extra attacks (that stacked with haste/speed effects) for a -5 penalty to all attacks. It also had normal fighter bonus feat progression, and just a slightly limited bonus feat list to make up for it all.

Putting down 6 arrows a around at level 6 (if you had a speed weapon or a mage with haste), with insane damage bonuses on all of them, and the first 5 at the highest attack bonus, is pretty hard to beat. Especially when you realize you only need about 6 or 7 levels of the class to get all the necessary abilities, and then all the other archery PrC's are open to exploitation.

 

[Plane Sailing]

a variant fighter from Dragon

Home of well designed and balanced options? Say no more

 

[Darklone]

Three arrows for the king ... is a pdf d20 supplement with an archer variant core class. Medium BAB, bonus to one weapon type and after 4 levels you get an additional shot. Nearly as balanced as standard dragon stuff

 

[johnsemlak]

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the Targeteer, a variant fighter from Dragon 310 (not sure, it's on of the 31? issues). It can select, as a bonus feat, a few extremely broken class abilities. Like, say, adding Dexterity to all ranged damage rolls, instead of the occasional strength bonus with mighty composite longbows. Or an extension of the rapid shot chain that led to 3 extra attacks (that stacked with haste/speed effects) for a -5 penalty to all attacks. It also had normal fighter bonus feat progression, and just a slightly limited bonus feat list to make up for it all.

Putting down 6 arrows a around at level 6 (if you had a speed weapon or a mage with haste), with insane damage bonuses on all of them, and the first 5 at the highest attack bonus, is pretty hard to beat. Especially when you realize you only need about 6 or 7 levels of the class to get all the necessary abilities, and then all the other archery PrC's are open to exploitation.

Ah, thanks for reminding me of that.

The DM I'll be under for this campaign will allow all stuff from Dragon, but not stuff form non-official sources, or FR stuff. Unfortuantely, that rules Three-arrows and a king out, which is a good product.