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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 653856" data-attributes="member: 5724">Yes, and i thank you for addressing the scenario and not me. I was going to fire off a sarcastic quick post, but instead i'll really say what i think because you might be interested in it as opposed to just being interested in saying what you think. This is just my little philosophy and everyone has their own.....Actually what i was trying to say, and i apparantly didn't say it well enough is something like this.Why does the guy's emotional state depend on what i do?  Ie. he was fine all the time that i was playing his PC and he didn't know it, but once he finds out he's somehow distressed.  that seems just a wee bit silly to me.  You may find me harsh on this, but i don't get it when peoples emotional states are dependant upon things that they have no way of knowing are "real" or not. I was trying to show how that the guy, instead of "being hurt" actually "hurt himself" because he was not hurt until he decided to be hurt.  And the real kicker to me is that he's hurt over something thats "not-real". If he'd found out i was sleeping with his wife, that would be a completely different thing. But even then what pain he choses to accept or reject is ultimately his choice, even if he does not have the capablity of rejecting something because he hasn't trained himself enough to be able to do so.  (ie. i could never set my-self on fire in protest, but i don't think the fact that i can't do that is not my fault.  It is my fault as i chose what to accept and what not to accept)There's a separation here that needs to be made.  If the guys upset because i lied to him, i can understand that. Honesty is one of the few things that holds humanity together, and is something that's very important in understanding self. But, if the guy is upset because i used his character's name in my D&D game, that's far and away a different thing.My use of the word pretend here was to highlight the fact that this is just a game. Its not real.  The guy's character, no matter how much he may feel like it is is not part of the guys self, unless he makes it that way.And, IMHO, if a guy makes his character part of his sense of self then the guy does have problems that should be addressed. Its the same thing as when a guy makes a football team part of his sense of self.  Why one earth would a rational, well-balanced human being have an emotional response that is equivilent to that which occurs when the self is attacked when "his team" loses a football game?  The only reason this occurs is because he has put part of his self into something that is most definitly not, his self. It the whole idea of attempting to experience a bigger reality by associating onself with a larger group.  "My team lost today!" or "My team won today!" are blatantly false statements in the fact that the guy doesn't own the team. He has no real attachments to the team except for the attachments he has made in his head because he likes the feeling of belonging to a bigger group because, IMHO, it is representational of belonging to god.Its like the people that feel bad (ie have attached a sense of self to an outside object, so that when the object is attacked they foolishly believe the self has been attacked) when you say (to use a less offensive holy figure to our generally christian mindset), "The Dali Lama is a big piece of Poo Poo!"  Why on earth should the opinion of another about a subject that is not the self trigger the same response as when the self it attacked?The self, if placed anywhere but the self, is not actually the self although it may feel like the self.No, forming an attachment to something (although i agree here with budha that in the long run is self-defeating) is not always a sign of needing therapy.  What im stating, is that the player has chosen and he can un-chose at any minute, to feel "pain" at my actions.  The only reason the player feels hurt is not because of my actions, but because of IMHO, a silly level of attachment to a particular non-self entity.  If this guy was talking about a bit of belly button lint, i don't think you'd be debating with me.Honestly you're not the first person to misunderstand me. It not your fault, its mine. The burdon of communication lies with me.  I tend to not explain myself enough and i tend to assume that my respondent has a somewhat similiar backgroud.  This assumption is of course, stupid.To me you were role-playing because you were missing my point and saying i said things i didn't say.  Its just a difference of opinion.I think its of ultimate importance to remember that you, and in fact any part of you, is not the character.  You are what's inside your flesh, not what a fictional character does in a fictional environment.  It is the separation of, i hate to use these terms but they're pretty appropriate, the art and the artist.  the art is not the artist, the artist is not the art.  Sure they influence each other both ways, but they are separate, and each is equally valid from a multiple of viewpoints.Sorry you had a bad experience. We've all had them, but the nice thing about bad experiences is that the teach us what not to do.joe b.edit: actually this post is pretty much summed up in my sig line "you can want anything you are."  As opposed to the traditional "you can be anything you want." Im saying you canwant what you already are and have the same sense of fulfilment and joy people tend to associate with "being better" through fiscally/physically/emotionally measurable methods.  In fact when you succed in wanting what you are you avoid many of the classic traps of success... constant search for the emotional high that you get when you're "at the top of your form" or the confidence you gain through the successful completion of an action.  Basically, im saying there is nothing outside of you that is giving you these posistive emotions. All of these feelings are in fact, independant, of everything outside of you. They solely come from within.conversly, all the bad emotions you have come from within.  Even if a guy comes up and punches your face, if you get angry, the guy didn't "make you angry" YOU made you angry.</blockquote>

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