who should choose familiar/spells DM or player?

[Elf Witch]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

I would like to say something about my DM he is not a bad guy. He wants his players to have fun. I have had him as GM for our Shadowrun game for 8 years so that says something.

He runs a great game with a lot of role playing and wheels within wheels that make the game really intresting.

We are all role players and like a high level of role play in game. The DM likes things to make role play sense. For example he would never allow you to add Barbarian to your character after first level unless it made sense. You spent time with a barbarian tribe or you are a barbarian who planned to multiclass all along and you just took another class first.

I have no problem with that I agree with it.

For my sorcerer we have been playing out weird things happening around the campfire at night weird sounds things moving by themselves. Role playing out the developing magic.

I had no idea that he was going to do the thing with the spells or the familiar until after I had leveled and had done my sheet that is when he told me about having to summon the familiar which I cannot do anyway because I don't have enough gold to buy the expensive materials.

AS for the spells I am really not happy over giving up that much control of my character. When I play a sorcerer I tailor the spell list to the personality of the character. I am not someone who picks all the so called must have spells for sorcerers.

I let role playing help me pick. For example I played a sorcerer who was very dark and bitter and chaotic she wanted anyone who attacked her to really suffer so no quick death spells for her. I took most of the spells from the school of necromancy and there was no sign of magic missle or fireball any where on my character sheet.

We had discussed this and I thought we were on the same page with the idea of tailoring the spell list to the sorcerer. I did not realize that it would be random.

I love role playing but I also realize that this is a game and not everything can be role played out.

It maybe more realistic for a sorcerer's spells to be random but it is not much fun in a game.

I wrote him all this in an email and if he will not change his mind then I will just go up in ranger and forget the entire sorcerer thing.

 

[Nellisir]

When I discussed it with him his argument was that it really did not impact that character that much on what type of familiar you got and that if you didn't get one it was not the same as losing a feat.

So...you don't get to chose the familiar because you're "role"-playing, but the familiar doesn't have that much of an impact on the character? So...just keep on being mr dark and gloomy with your parrot familiar?

And, if a familiar isn't worth a feat...tell him you want two.

AND...you're at least 2nd level, and you can't scrape 100gp together?

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Regimented? That's the DM that insists your characters need to formally in-character the terms of their affiliation or set up a proper order of battle and standard procedures responding to tactical considerations.

This? This is (IMO of course not to offend) far beyond regimented into the land of demented malfunctioning rogue modrons who steal everyone's left shoe to shift the cosmological balance or obsessively color code blades of grass based on how far the vector of their growth deviates from the spire.

 

[MonkeyDragon]

Monkey Dragon - you can't see how random rolls in the beginning could be the basis for some incredible opportunities for role playing as opposed to thinking up a character ahead of time and making everything fit into that idea?

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that a person could NOT rp with the latter model. Indeed, it seems to be more and more the standard nowadays. Nothing wrong with it!

However, some of the most interesting rp'ing experiences I had were when I was presented a collection of stats and characteristics and the like in the beginning, and then periodically have something else thrown into my life that helped form the character. THIS was a blast. And some of my most memorable games come from this .. "style". It IS possible to roleplay in this way.

Again though ... I know that it is just not to most people's liking.

This may be somewhat off the topic. I am not necessarily defending the DM and saying his ruling was good or bad. I am merely saying that I had many experiences of "rolling with the changes" as they came along and thoroughly enjoying the game. If the player stays in the game perhaps he will see something totally unexpected emerge or come about. I am not saying she should leave or go ... merely trying to show another way to look at the whole thing if she decides to stay that may make it more interesting.

I'm not suggesting that having a character determined randomly couldn't be a fun way to build a PC. I think it could be a blast. but then, I think a lot of different types of games could be fun. I'd happily play in games where I was expected to have an in-depth backstory, or just come up with something based on random rolls. I'd play games that started in noble courts or slave ships, with full gear or bare essentials, in all magic-user games or with no casters at all, or any other kind of situation that would drastically affect how a character is built both mechanically and personality wise. There are only two factors, IMHO. One is that games with special rules/situations should be just that: special. As in, I don't want there to be limiting factors in my character creation ALL the time. The other is that I want to KNOW about it before we start. I don't want to make a big gnarly barbarian and have all sorts of ideas for how the character may develop, and then find out that we're playing a political intriuge game.

I know that my example and the OP's situation are very different, but what I feel it comes down to is that limitations on character building, whatever they are, should not come was a surprise to the players. And I still feel that this was poor form on the part of the DM to dictate what the OPs character can do when the standard is for the player to choose his character options. I think he's trying to take too much control.

 

[Harmon]

Elf,

Seems you have lots of great suggestions here. I only have a few things to suggest Play the character you come up with, her first level of Sorc is a done deal- if you get crappy spells then barrow a Wizard spellbooks and study the ones you want.

When it comes to the familiar dismiss the none kitty, and study up on the powers that direct that energy within your character, try to draw towards the cat fu and see if your GM bites.

I agree with with your ideas about role playing and think that his rigidness on roll making a character are a little unplayer friendly, but it sounds like you would be losing more then its worth to quit or change your idea.

Take care, and have fun in your next session

 

[Elf Witch]

So...you don't get to chose the familiar because you're "role"-playing, but the familiar doesn't have that much of an impact on the character? So...just keep on being mr dark and gloomy with your parrot familiar?

And, if a familiar isn't worth a feat...tell him you want two.

AND...you're at least 2nd level, and you can't scrape 100gp together?

Actually I am third level and at this moment I have about 50 GP. We had to raise a party member and it wiped us out. That and we had to bail the party rogue out of jail that really wiped us out.

 

[Thanatos]

Count me in the camp that says if he isn't gonna let you pick your familiar and spells, then nix the level of sorcerer and just go up in ranger. It isn't fair he throws those "House Rules" changes on you in counter to what you expect of the written class, he should have warned you first.

Just because he is a good Shadowrun GM, doesn't mean is he is automatically gonna be good in another game...there's always a learning curve of experience with different systems. Sounds like he isn't a bad guy, but one that doesn't understand a /random sorcerer is likely a useless sorcerer.

Good Luck -- and definitely you should point him to this thread.

 

[Elf Witch]

Count me in the camp that says if he isn't gonna let you pick your familiar and spells, then nix the level of sorcerer and just go up in ranger. It isn't fair he throws those "House Rules" changes on you in counter to what you expect of the written class, he should have warned you first.

Just because he is a good Shadowrun GM, doesn't mean is he is automatically gonna be good in another game...there's always a learning curve of experience with different systems. Sounds like he isn't a bad guy, but one that doesn't understand a /random sorcerer is likely a useless sorcerer.

Good Luck -- and definitely you should point him to this thread.

I think you may be right about this. This is the first 3E game he has ever DMed he has played in several.

And Shadowrun is a very different game than DnD.

He has incorporated a lot of what he does in Shadowrun into this game and some of it is just not working as well as it does for Shadowrun.

 

[Herzog]

I actually had a reverse discussion with (one of) my DM(s) yesterday.

He stated that he hated tables, because he disliked the idea of random rolls determining the progress of his campaign/story.

I, on the other hand, both as a player and a DM, like tables and other random rolls.
Most characters I create begin with 6x 4d6, pick highest in order, and then I try to write the character that goes with those stats around it.
I love the results of a random reincarnate, and a randomly determined familiar or companion wouldn't hurt me at all.

That said, whenever I have rolled stats for a character, and I find that the stats currently assigned to strength and intelligent would fit my (now determined) class better, I switch them. (to avoid confusion: this is all still in the character creation fase!)
Whenever a reincarnated character really doesn't want to play with the rolled outcome (and the DM agrees) I roll again.
Whenever I would get a randomly determined familiar or companion and it doesn't fit my character concept at that time, I dismiss it and try again.

In short, yes, the DM can and may use random rolls for your character's familiar and spells, because it is his game, and his houserules. He should have told you before you took that level of sorcerer.

But in the end, if the DM comes up with spells or a familiar and you really do not like the outcome, tell him. Say that with that the spells he has (randomly) selected for your character do not fit his persona, and will not be cast by him/her. Tell him your sorcerer refuses to 'learn' how to cast that particular spell.

The earlier suggested reading of the wizard's spellbook might also work.
It is how my own sorcerer is slowly learning what kind of arcane spells are possible.

Herzog

 

[TheGM]

4. Tell the DM to come read this: EN World

Yeah, because ENWorld is a well balanced community

First off, not to open old wounds, but it is the DMs game. He's putting all the work into it. If it was everyone's game, he wouldn't be the only one busting his tail between games to make sure everyone else enjoys it (no, I don't want to open this discussion again, just thought the counterpoint needed to be out there).

As to the OP, I have always used random familiar generation. The reasoning is sound, and letting PCs pick just ends up with a zillion uber-familiars.

I've done spells both ways, and honestly, I think it sucks when the spells are randomly determined by the DM. Spellcasters get one thing well - spells. I'd tell him you can see his point on the familliar, if he will give you your way with spells. Point out that random generation could leave you with a character you don't enjoy (not because you want control, but because it's the only thing you get... Not like a Sorcerer is gonna specialize or anything). Tell him your character knows what they're trying to do, and they're working on it between levels. Maybe even agree to tell him when you level what spell you're gonna work on next...

Sounds like you like the DM overall, don't listen to the "I'd leave" advice, work on it with him.

Just my 0.02 Rubles.

Don.