-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
WotC Who should own Wizards of the Coast if/when it is sold?
- Thread starter Luminous
- Start date
Solution
Dragonblade
Adventurer
I doubt Hasbro ever sells WotC. Hasbro bought WotC for 325 million in 1999. That was 20 years ago and those brands have only increased in value, especially with the advent of 5e, online streaming, etc. I was reading some shareholder information and Magic alone probably brings in close to 500 million in revenue. D&D wouldn't be that high, but with 5e and licensing I could see combined D&D revenue between 50 and 100 million.
That means D&D and Magic IP would be worth easily north of 1 Billion today, and nobody aside from a major game studio or media conglomerate can afford that. Technically, on paper it would be worth more (if 500 mill in revenue is accurate than 3-5 billion is in the ballpark), but given the risk and volatility of the tabletop market, I'm not sure someone would pay what its really worth, thus making it less likely that Hasbro wants to sell without extracting full value for their properties. Selling those properties for less would be foolish unless Hasbro itself is being broken up for some reason and all their properties go in a fire sale.
There is also no value in WotC as a niche tabletop publisher without D&D and Magic attached to it, so this notion of WotC being sold with Hasbro retaining the licenses is unlikely. Who would buy WotC without D&D and Magic? Nobody. The only way that works is if Hasbro decides to outsource all their publishing and includes WotC assets as part of some sort of long term licensing deal with an established big time publisher to take the reins of D&D. I would only see Asmodee even coming close to the kind of numbers Hasbro would expect as part of such a deal. Maybe Hasbro would consider a sweet heart deal with Paizo, but they would have to bring in some big investors to help them and Pathfinder gets mothballed.
D&D could be sold by itself, but that too would be a 500 million dollar deal at the low end. Nobody in tabletop today can realistically afford that without bringing in some equity partners, and I don't see big equity taking a gamble on the niche tabletop industry like that. Too much risk and not enough upside, even with the D&D name. I could potentially see a game studio like EA making a deal like that, because they could instantly capitalize on that IP in video games.
That means D&D and Magic IP would be worth easily north of 1 Billion today, and nobody aside from a major game studio or media conglomerate can afford that. Technically, on paper it would be worth more (if 500 mill in revenue is accurate than 3-5 billion is in the ballpark), but given the risk and volatility of the tabletop market, I'm not sure someone would pay what its really worth, thus making it less likely that Hasbro wants to sell without extracting full value for their properties. Selling those properties for less would be foolish unless Hasbro itself is being broken up for some reason and all their properties go in a fire sale.
There is also no value in WotC as a niche tabletop publisher without D&D and Magic attached to it, so this notion of WotC being sold with Hasbro retaining the licenses is unlikely. Who would buy WotC without D&D and Magic? Nobody. The only way that works is if Hasbro decides to outsource all their publishing and includes WotC assets as part of some sort of long term licensing deal with an established big time publisher to take the reins of D&D. I would only see Asmodee even coming close to the kind of numbers Hasbro would expect as part of such a deal. Maybe Hasbro would consider a sweet heart deal with Paizo, but they would have to bring in some big investors to help them and Pathfinder gets mothballed.
D&D could be sold by itself, but that too would be a 500 million dollar deal at the low end. Nobody in tabletop today can realistically afford that without bringing in some equity partners, and I don't see big equity taking a gamble on the niche tabletop industry like that. Too much risk and not enough upside, even with the D&D name. I could potentially see a game studio like EA making a deal like that, because they could instantly capitalize on that IP in video games.
Last edited:
Zardnaar
Legend
I doubt D&D is worth 500 million.
Entire hobby is what 50-60 million a year WotC only gets a slice of that then has to pay expenses. Wouldn't be surprised if it "only" brings in ten or twenty million minus expenses.
If they wanted to sell and someone waved $100-200 million cash under their noses.....
Dragonblade
Adventurer
LOL. For 100 million, EA or Bethesda would write that check today and wouldn't think twice. That pennies on the dollar for what D&D is worth. A couple of A list PC and console game releases would make that money back and more. Dragon Age Inquisition alone made over 150 million based on units sold. Think what they could do with the entire D&D IP catalog.
Good rule of thumb is a business or brand is worth about 10x the annual recurring revenue, or a reasonable estimate of what that revenue could be based on historical data. I don't have access to any D&D internal numbers, but with its properties, huge brand awareness, a substantial back catalog of games, novels, the licensed gaming rights, potential television streaming rights, D&D Beyond, etc. WotC is probably bringing in 50-60 million for D&D today, and could probably double it to 100 million if they really exploited all their assets, aggressively pursued deals with Netflix, etc. but they are likely being very conservative. Trying to build evergreen recurring revenue and and exploiting opportunities carefully, after the spikes and crashes of prior editions.
Anyway 50-60 million is reasonable guess. 10x of 50 million is 500 million. Thats a reasonable and likely very conservative ask for D&D. Its likely worth more, but no way that Hasbro ever sells it for less than that.
Ok, ICv2 is doubling down on it. I guess the first article got lot of clicks?
glass
(he, him)
Regarding the 50 million figure, it is notable that that is what 4e failed to hit despite a comparative fire hose of product relasease and DDi (well, "50 million with a clear growth path to 100 million"). 5e seems to be going for lower costs and higher returns on each product, but probably has lower annual revenues overall than 4e at it height (albeit much more sustainable over the medium term).
Which means 50 million seem rather optimistic. Maybe if/when successful movie/Netflix/etc deals actually come to fruition, but nothing much has actually happened yet on that front.
_
glass.
Which means 50 million seem rather optimistic. Maybe if/when successful movie/Netflix/etc deals actually come to fruition, but nothing much has actually happened yet on that front.
_
glass.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
The first thing I'll do after I buy WotC is open the DMs Guild to all D&D settings, past and present. Lots of stuff I'd like to see in 5th that fiscally unlikely to see the light of day in an official product.
MichaelSomething
Legend
If we're talking about who we wish would own WOTC, then I would like to suggest it become fan owned; like a co-op of farmers, a credit union, or how the Green Bay Packers work.
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
When Disney bought Marvel it was not to sell comics, but to use the franchise to produce movies and teleseries. Hasbro know WotC has got valuable IPs perfect for videogames and media productions. Even Mattel noticed it can make money recovering old glories, for example He-Man and She-ra.
I guess Hasbro would be willing to acquire Asmodee Games, or at least some pact of list stock if this sells. Now Hasbro's business strategy isn't only selling toys and games, but also entertaiment productions, making money with IPs what allow different merchandising products. Hasbro is going to sell no subsudiary with potentially valuable IPs.
I guess Hasbro would be willing to acquire Asmodee Games, or at least some pact of list stock if this sells. Now Hasbro's business strategy isn't only selling toys and games, but also entertaiment productions, making money with IPs what allow different merchandising products. Hasbro is going to sell no subsudiary with potentially valuable IPs.
