Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why all the brouhaha about the Essentials?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Phat Lute" data-source="post: 5333433" data-attributes="member: 84524"><p>I think if Essentials were done like Basic D&D was, no one would be having a problem. Everyone would be excited.</p><p></p><p>But some major differences exist:</p><p></p><p>Basic and AD&D existed as distinct, parallel game systems. One wasn't an update to the other. They had their core advanced line in development at the same time, rather than using one to inform their design decisions for the other. They existed as separate and parallel game lines for a decade or more. They kept developing both and announcing products for both at the same time.</p><p></p><p>Also, you might actually see a reference to AD&D products, or an advertisement, in Basic boxes. Not so with Essentials, which can be especially worrying to some because it's not a parallel game system, it's supposed to be the same game system. </p><p></p><p>But nowhere does it say, "When you're ready to try more advanced options, try the Player's Handbook" or anything to that effect. Which is odd, given that according to the discussion of the economics of D&D, and its supply and demand that we just received from giant.robot, above, you'd think they would have a big warehouse full of PHBs, and if so, why wouldn't they want to sell them if they're not more or less abandoning that part of the line? </p><p></p><p>It's not what they did... simplified classes in a parallel, introductory game that brings people into the hobby would have been greeted with a ticker-tape parade by most.</p><p></p><p>It's how they did it... branding it as "all you need to play D&D", little to no mention of an existing game line or effort to encourage people to try it once they have a grasp of the basics, making it the core game line instead of a parallel series of books.</p><p></p><p>If it were Basic D&D and Advanced D&D, most of the critics would be dancing in the streets and trying to hug Mearls. It's all of the signs and signals that make it feel like they're skirting around saying it's a replacement, at the same time that they're saying it's not a replacement, that is causing people to be upset.</p><p></p><p>The question is, if these approaches are just limited to the 10 Evergreen products, and then it's back to the old way of doing things, - OR some kind of hybrid approach where they further develop both - why avoid all references to the older stuff? If they've got a huge inventory of unsold PHBs and they intend to continue with things as they were before Essentials once the 10 products are released, why not try to do what a business does and sell them? Two simple lines: "If you feel that you've mastered the game of Dungeons and Dragons Essentials, you might want to move on to more complex and challenging builds. Wizards of the Coast has the Player's Handbooks 1 through 3, and the Power sourcebooks available in stores now!"</p><p></p><p>Further, what have they given to new Essentials players that would help them to understand a PHB class? "Where's the class level chart that tells me what I get? How can I choose these other build options?" If they have any intention of going back or offering any traditional classes in the future, they've done nothing to help an Essentials-only ("all you'll ever need to play the game") person understand them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phat Lute, post: 5333433, member: 84524"] I think if Essentials were done like Basic D&D was, no one would be having a problem. Everyone would be excited. But some major differences exist: Basic and AD&D existed as distinct, parallel game systems. One wasn't an update to the other. They had their core advanced line in development at the same time, rather than using one to inform their design decisions for the other. They existed as separate and parallel game lines for a decade or more. They kept developing both and announcing products for both at the same time. Also, you might actually see a reference to AD&D products, or an advertisement, in Basic boxes. Not so with Essentials, which can be especially worrying to some because it's not a parallel game system, it's supposed to be the same game system. But nowhere does it say, "When you're ready to try more advanced options, try the Player's Handbook" or anything to that effect. Which is odd, given that according to the discussion of the economics of D&D, and its supply and demand that we just received from giant.robot, above, you'd think they would have a big warehouse full of PHBs, and if so, why wouldn't they want to sell them if they're not more or less abandoning that part of the line? It's not what they did... simplified classes in a parallel, introductory game that brings people into the hobby would have been greeted with a ticker-tape parade by most. It's how they did it... branding it as "all you need to play D&D", little to no mention of an existing game line or effort to encourage people to try it once they have a grasp of the basics, making it the core game line instead of a parallel series of books. If it were Basic D&D and Advanced D&D, most of the critics would be dancing in the streets and trying to hug Mearls. It's all of the signs and signals that make it feel like they're skirting around saying it's a replacement, at the same time that they're saying it's not a replacement, that is causing people to be upset. The question is, if these approaches are just limited to the 10 Evergreen products, and then it's back to the old way of doing things, - OR some kind of hybrid approach where they further develop both - why avoid all references to the older stuff? If they've got a huge inventory of unsold PHBs and they intend to continue with things as they were before Essentials once the 10 products are released, why not try to do what a business does and sell them? Two simple lines: "If you feel that you've mastered the game of Dungeons and Dragons Essentials, you might want to move on to more complex and challenging builds. Wizards of the Coast has the Player's Handbooks 1 through 3, and the Power sourcebooks available in stores now!" Further, what have they given to new Essentials players that would help them to understand a PHB class? "Where's the class level chart that tells me what I get? How can I choose these other build options?" If they have any intention of going back or offering any traditional classes in the future, they've done nothing to help an Essentials-only ("all you'll ever need to play the game") person understand them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why all the brouhaha about the Essentials?
Top