Why all the crying about CR and EL?

[arbados]

I just don't get it? I see people complaining about whether monsters are listed as the appropriate CR and if encounters in modules and such are listed with the appropriate EL (encounter level). Who cares!!! Come on, I have DM'd for many years and it doesn't take me much time to look at a monster or an encounter and figure out whether it is pretty appropraite for the adventuring party I play with.

Also, so what if an encounter or monster is at times to tough or too easy!? Play with the dice rolls behind the DM screen if the creature/encounter seems more difficult than you anticipated or make more creatures pop up at the right time to increase the challenge. Why do people need an exact science to everything.

I remember when there was nothing of the sort to go by and things went fine. This is my first rant and maybe because my vacation ends Sunday!!!

 

[Aaron L]

Maybe because the amount of experience you get for the creature is based on their CR, amd if their CR is messed up then XP is messed up?

 

[arbados]

Yeah, but Aaron if the CR of a monster is chosen for your adventuring party the xp's that are given out should be what you as the Dm wanted to give out. If you choose a CR 10 for your group you are expecting them to get the appropriate xp's for that encounter.

I am talking about the complaints regarding creatures that DM's complain about that are either tougher than the CR listed or not tough enough.

Who cares!!

 

[ThirdWizard]

Then why have CR at all if it isn't to be used. I modify it slightly, but it has to be somewhat accurate to be of any use.

 

[arbados]

No I agree Third Wizard that the concept is good and needs to be continued. However, minutia about a creature being a slightly over or under powered is just plain silly. get a grip!

 

[Flyspeck23]

I just don't get it? I see people complaining about whether monsters are listed as the appropriate CR and if encounters in modules and such are listed with the appropriate EL (encounter level). Who cares!!! Come on, I have DM'd for many years and it doesn't take me much time to look at a monster or an encounter and figure out whether it is pretty appropraite for the adventuring party I play with.

That's a good point, actually. You've "DM'd for many years", and thus are quite experienced - which others might lack.
CR is at the least supposed to be a help for unexperienced DMs, and for that it should be as accurate as possible.

I think no one would have serious problems with a CR which is maybe one (or two...) point(s) off. Anything more, and you'll either kill your party on an easy encounter, or bore them in the climatic battle.
An experienced DM might catch an CR as inaccurate, or not.

Conclusion: a published CR should be accurate (btw, the revised MM has some nice guidelines). You can mess with the system later (at home), if you want.

Oh, and rolling the dice behind the screen is not for me. I consider this one of the beautiful aspects of D&D 3rd edition: you ain't got to roll behind the screen. Trust me on this

And: if "exact science" makes my live as a DM easier, well, I think it's nice.

 

[Olive]

Maybe because we don't all have the experience at DMing you do?

Or

Maybe because when somethign says it does a job, it should do that job right?

 

[Davelozzi]

Then why have CR at all if it isn't to be used. I modify it slightly, but it has to be somewhat accurate to be of any use.

Agreed. And since it's obviously so subjective that it can never be terribly accurate, I'd sooner get rid of it all together.

 

[jgsugden]

CR and EL are fine, but you need to modify them to deal with campaign specific issues. The 3.0 DMG even mentioned that you need to take circumstances into account and adjust CR/EL.

For instance, if you have a party of 4 wizards and they end up facing a golem in a confined area, they may have a very tough fight on their hands, even if the CR/EL is lower than their level when taken directly from the book. That CR/EL should probably be bumped up because it is more of a challenge for them than for a standard party.

On the other hand, 4 fighters might look at that battle as nothing more than a good way to stretch out in the morning if they have weapons that can beat the DR. You should probably lower the CR/EL for them.

The books are a decent guideline in most instances. You need to deal with any variancers to the best of your ability as a DM. You may not do a perfect job, but if you do the best you can, you'll do well enough.

 

[mmu1]

Agreed. And since it's obviously so subjective that it can never be terribly accurate, I'd sooner get rid of it all together.

[em]Casts Protection From Upper Krust[/em]