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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrGrenadine" data-source="post: 5089277" data-attributes="member: 62619">I'd like to apologize on behalf of all the players who used casters to steal your thunder and made the game unfun for you and claimed they were brilliant for doing the obvious.  I've never played that way, and I don't play in groups that play that way, so, you know, YMMV.  But I see by how worked up you are that its been a problem, so I'm happy 4e fixed that for you.On the other hand, the issue isn't that people who play casters want to do everything better than everyone else--selfish, immature players might, but not good players.  The fact is that for 30 years casters using spell X to overcome problems facing the party has absolutely led to some very creative, out of the box play--I'm sure any one of us could think of a few dozen examples from our own campaigns where that happened.  Examples, I'm sure, where the casters quick thinking or fortuitous spell selection saved the party's bacon.  So blanket statements knocking casters for having it too easy is just hogwash. And on the subject of creativity, I'd love to hear your examples of the tremendously creative ways your fighter characters hit stuff with sharpened pieces of metal over and over.  Or bashed through locked doors.  Etc.Anyway, if your experience has been that casters memorized just the correct spells to bust plots, then I'm sorry the DM created plots for you that were so easily bustable.You see, the point is that magic should NOT always just give a slight edge--that would be boring.  It should sometimes be exactly the right thing to do to solve the problem--OR it should be the right thing to do that allows the rest of the party to do their thing to solve the problem.  Teamwork and roles and all that.And yes, in terms of my water-filled room example, ranged options, and scrolls would have worked, and of course we used those.  But to me an interesting campaign is one that surprises--not one where I have just the utility spell prepped and we think of every contingency and merely react as a matter of course.Adventures should be chaotic, hazardous, confusing, surprising and fast paced--and casters should have moments to use their powers to push the party towards its goals, the same as fighters, rogues and whoever else.On another note, I think your idea of having to use the tongue of someone who speaks the language to cast Comprehend is pretty cool.</blockquote>

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