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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tyrlaan" data-source="post: 5091024" data-attributes="member: 20998">Firstly, I think the argument is not that magic should never trump skills, but rather that magic should never *easily* trump skills. If the argument was the former, people would be stating rituals should not exist at all. Secondly, that last paragraph there is very telling. In your mind, magic is the first/primary solution to a problem. And yes, if that is your mentality you are doomed to be disappointed with the current ritual system. 4e presents a paradigm shift. Whether you like it or not, 4e attempts to spread the wealth of problem solving across all the players at the gaming table. That means the primary solution to a problem will not always be magic. 4e wants the adventuring party at the edge of a chasm to think about an assortment of solutions instead of just looking at Magey McSwissArmyKnife and waiting for him to sweep the problem away. 4e does not prevent players from relying on magic to solve problems, but it attempts to balance such solutions so rituals are not the end all be all of problem solving. And honestly, most argument I am seeing raised against rituals in this thread don't read like someone saying "rituals don't work because they will never get used to solve a problem", rather they read like someone saying "rituals don't work because they are not the first place players turn when they need to solve a problem."Eh, not a very solid argument for making any point at all really. "A lot" of DMs might use rituals exactly as outlined in the post you quoted.</blockquote>

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