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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5092740" data-attributes="member: 2067">Trying to condense...This is a problem for me, too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> That's part of why I would meld the rituals and skills into one system for noncombat mechanics. Why is that, I wonder, hmm...Roles are meant to protect a niche. If the wizard has their own niche out of combat, where magic wins, then it doesn't invalidate others' niches out of combat, anymore than the striker being able to deal damage invalidates the defender's ability to mark. That's the idea: noncombat roles.And it fixes one of the central problems of both skill challenges and rituals in that no one can contribute uniquely. Providing everyone access to everything causes many of the problem that many players have with both rituals and skill challenges. Not everyone in combat can deal damage like a striker, and this makes a striker feel special. Not everyone should be able to do everything out of combat, so that, when not in combat, you can still feel like you're making a unique contribution. And this is also part of the problem. Above, I outlined what might happen if the party comes up to a cliff, in a way that everyone can contribute. Wizard uses the ritual to float, Fighter keeps monsters at bay, Rogue scouts ahead to find out what's on the other side, Cleric can help mitigate anyone's failure (give the Rogue darkvision, keep the Fighter alert, enhance the Wizard's ritual check, and heal everyone if anything falls apart). You can't cross the chasm with a skill challenge, just like you can't raise the dead with a skill challenge. Magic has a clear role to play in solving the problem. Everyone else contributes in their own way. This lines up with combat roles pretty nicely. Fighters keep monsters at bay. Clerics heal everyone. Rogues kill things. Wizards cause havoc. Kind of flip the wizard and the rogue, and you have basically what I outlined for crossing the chasm.A rule that requires you to be a good DM to use it is probably a rule that needs improving.</blockquote>

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