Pathfinder 2E Why are all the magic items so boring?

The reason magic items feel so boring in so many games is because most magic items do very general stat-boost things. On the other hand, if they did very quirky specific things, players would have to engage with them creatively, because their purpose isn’t readily apparent.
Consider two potions: one increases the character’s strength by 2 for d6 rounds. We all know how that’s getting used. The other makes someone paranoid. That takes creativity to use.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I wouldn’t play PF2 again without free archetype.
We all have our different preferences.

I'm just shy of saying I wouldn't play PF2E WITH free archetype.

Essentially the opposite perspective from yours. That's a different topic from this one though.

For any of these variants - including the bonus one that more or less replaces how magic items work - I suggest GMs first try them in a mid-level 'roughly 3 levels span' adventure rather than in an AP. Try them in something short enough that you're not stuck with a bad choice, and at mid level so they actually get tested in the range where it really counts. Saying 'we're using ABP' and then running Beginner Box is radically different from doing it in 'Prey For Death'. ;)

I let one of these variants into my AV game, and have been stuck with it because my players like it, but I deeply regret it. Enough so that as soon as I finish AV, I'm doing only short adventures for a while so I can test out what I want at my table in short bursts of content.
 


I wouldn’t play PF2 again without free archetype.

I don't know I'd say "wouldn't" in my case, but I think Free Archetype allows a lot of character customization without impinging on basic functionality without turning up the power level significantly, so I'd provide it in any game I was running.
 

Regarding the item question--honestly, from my POV almost all magic items in games (and this applies to pretty much every fantasy game I've seen) add up to one of three cases: overpowered (as in the throw off the balance of the PC and possibly the group), boring or cute but mostly irrelevant. The space between those is exceedingly narrow. Since PF2e is unwilling to do the first, everything tends to land in the second or third.
 

iirc, ABP was the original plan, but during playtesting they found players missed the item treadmill, so they put it back in

Yeah, I've been told that before (possibly by you, in fact), which is always weird to me but I suppose there are people (even in this thread) who enjoy it. As it stands, I'm just glad that they gave us a solid, easily-integrated variant that moves away from it.
 

Yeah, I've been told that before (possibly by you, in fact), which is always weird to me but I suppose there are people (even in this thread) who enjoy it. As it stands, I'm just glad that they gave us a solid, easily-integrated variant that moves away from it.
I wonder how much it isn't exactly like, but instead learned to expect? Lot of folks not happy with 5E becasue magic items dont have an economy or expected loot system. Videogames for decades are more inventory games than anything. It's just pounded into the brain through repetition. Im not saying folks cant like the magic item treadmill, but I have a feeling many folks have learned to like it.
 


Yeah, I've been told that before (possibly by you, in fact), which is always weird to me but I suppose there are people (even in this thread) who enjoy it. As it stands, I'm just glad that they gave us a solid, easily-integrated variant that moves away from it.

I can kind of see people liking that the magic armor and weapons had a greater sense of heft, but then it just became pretty much mandatory (at least with the weapons), so that eliminated that anyway.
 

IMO, magic items in Pathfinder 2 have to be boring because they can't throw off the tight balance. In fact, I think all the spells, feats, and class abilities tend to be underwhelming compared to other games because of the balance quandary. They're more like incremental upgrades than anything that greatly impacts the game.
This is something gamers have been saying they wanted for years. But like how many wanted to balance martials and casters, it ends up not being what makes players happy (as we saw in 4E D&D).
I think this argument only applies to items whose purpose is to give a bonus to a d20 roll. Don't get me wrong, a lot of items have this purpose. In 1e, you had to upgrade three different items to keep your ac strong (amulet of natural armor, ring of deflection, and enhanced armor). Those are all items I would call "boring", but it's a tiny bit more interesting just because there's more of them.
Well first, we have to find out what's "interesting" to you? Do you have examples of interesting items from other games?
Yeah, you have to be more specific as to what you get out of other games that you aren't here. Not that I'm saying you're wrong, but it's hard to figure out the shape of the problem here with the vagueness. Like, do you want something that might have cool uses but is largely non-combat? Things with really wild powers? Has one gimmick that transforms how a character plays? I dunno, most of the time I find the best magical stuff in any game are things that are homebrewed rather than whatever is in a book, but it really depends on what you want.
As others note, we'd need examples of what you consider interesting.
I can list some specific examples. I didn't realize I was alone in this opinion. Obvious two are Aegis of Recovery and Quick-Runner's Shirt, even post-nerf it's worth 1000 gold. Some items I've liked in my group's old 1e games are Rope of Entanglement, Bracelet of Second Chances, Circlet of Speaking, Cube of Force, and Swordmaster's Flair.

There are also a lot of items that interact with class mechanics. Like the Bracelets of Mercy and Silver Smite. These are essentially just more healing/damage, but it does give you the choice of which to pick.
Regarding the item question--honestly, from my POV almost all magic items in games (and this applies to pretty much every fantasy game I've seen) add up to one of three cases: overpowered (as in the throw off the balance of the PC and possibly the group), boring or cute but mostly irrelevant. The space between those is exceedingly narrow. Since PF2e is unwilling to do the first, everything tends to land in the second or third.
That mostly tracks with my experience. Boring but practical items can be more interesting depending on how they're implemented though. Compare an item that boosts weapon damage with one that boosts sneak attack or smite damage like the Bracelet of Silver Smite above. At the end of the day, they both just increase your damage dealt, but boosting sneak attack damage feels more exciting, both because its a class feature you invested in, and because it gives you something to play around in combat.

And Cute but mostly irrelevant items vary widely from "totally useless" to "helpful in unlikely scenarios." The Rope of Entanglement above is a good example. In most scenarios is it better to spend your standard action to entangle an enemy? No, probably not. But, in an event where an enemy is trying to escape, it's excellent. Unlike grappling, there's no save, and it has a reach of 20 feat. So while it's mostly irrelevant, when it is useful, it's very useful. It's easy to imagine a version of this item that allows an initial save against a low, unscaling DC, that takes two actions to activate, but only one to escape from. Then the item would be better described as "cute, but entirely irrelevant."

Every item has an opportunity cost, because the gold you make by selling it could be spent on something else. With 2e items, the additional opportunity cost of the actions spent drawing and activating an item not worth it. I know I'm just cherry picking now (which is why I didn't use specific examples originally) but Spell Catalysts embody exactly what I'm talking about. The description sounds really cool. Use a consumable to add an effect to one of your spells, I love it. In practice though, they're narrowly useful, take up a hand, and often add an action to the spell being cast.

Soothing Scents lower the frightened value of someone you heal. Very few enemies can frighten, so they're at best narrowly useful. They also add an action to the spell, so casting Soothe would take up your entire turn. Even worst than that though, is that it has to be held to be activated, and it takes an action to draw. So unless if you start your turn holding one, it takes more than a full turn to cast Soothe boosted by the scents. By the time you pull it off, odds are the frightened will have gone away on its own.
 

Remove ads

Top