Pathfinder 2E Why are all the magic items so boring?

[Pedantic]

Its likely more that it avoids the "scaling with level" thing we discussed earlier, which can feel really odd to some people.

Really? That feels like an easily solvable problem. Instead of baking scaling into the items, just make it a default calculated part of the character, maybe tied into attunement somehow. Give it a name like "resonance value" or something. If it's in a box on your character sheet and items were just stacking modifiers on that number, I think people would generally be very accepting.

 

[stonehead]

I'm going to just speculate here that it was felt it would seem weird that they interacted with you that way. D&D and its descendants carry on some simulationist leanings occasionally that don't always do other elements of its design any favors.

Really? That feels like an easily solvable problem. Instead of baking scaling into the items, just make it a default calculated part of the character, maybe tied into attunement somehow. Give it a name like "resonance value" or something. If it's in a box on your character sheet and items were just stacking modifiers on that number, I think people would generally be very accepting.

Do you need a fantasy magical explanation that a fireball thrown by one person is harder to dodge than one thrown by another? That's how throwing physical weapons works. In this case, the ball of fire is literally thrown.

Maybe there are some cases like an animated rope or dancing weapon that do not make sense to use a character's stats, but for the majority of magic items with static bonuses/dcs the fact that a character is aiming it seems like enough of a justification.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I have debated using that next go round. I figured for our first 1-20 we would just stick to the core rules and then figure out what we want to add/subtract next time through so things like that and free archetype aren’t being used just yet.

When we finish Stolen Fate, I will probably run Prey for Death next to give free archetype a try since it heavily recommends you use it to give everyone the Red Mantis Assassin archetype.

I have run a couple PF2E campaigns where I essentially ignored the level on items and starting handing out awards around 4-7 levels higher than the PCs as a matter of course. I had to take that in to account for building encounters, but the net result was players feeling much more excited about the magic items they found.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In general magic items that are intended to be discarded should be limited-use consumables so they're not taking up the same cost and space as permanent items. You're otherwise running into thr D&D 4E problem where you're forced to discard your favorite powers to keep up with the math.

By level 20 you should be able to upgrade everything to be roughly the same bonuses/DCs.

That might be, but its pretty nontraditional to a lot of people. I mean, OD&D fighters weren't usually still carrying around their +1 Sword at 10th level (if they made it there). You can argue all kinds of other nontraditional things have been done, but some of that kind of thing casts a surprisingly long shadow.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Really? That feels like an easily solvable problem. Instead of baking scaling into the items, just make it a default calculated part of the character, maybe tied into attunement somehow. Give it a name like "resonance value" or something. If it's in a box on your character sheet and items were just stacking modifiers on that number, I think people would generally be very accepting.

If you don't think that's going to feel weird to a lot of people operating in the D&D sphere (one of the most tradition-obsessed part of the hobby) I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I have run a couple PF2E campaigns where I essentially ignored the level on items and starting handing out awards around 4-7 levels higher than the PCs as a matter of course. I had to take that in to account for building encounters, but the net result was players feeling much more excited about the magic items they found.

Well, there you've managed to engage with my point about a lot of items that don't seem either colorless or pointless by jumping right to overpowered and just accounting for it.

 

[Incenjucar]

That might be, but its pretty nontraditional to a lot of people. I mean, OD&D fighters weren't usually still carrying around their +1 Sword at 10th level (if they made it there). You can argue all kinds of other nontraditional things have been done, but some of that kind of thing casts a surprisingly long shadow.

They instead have a +3 Sword that does the same thing or better.

 

[Thomas Shey]

They instead have a +3 Sword that does the same thing or better.

Yup. But they largely got to do that because the OD&D treasure tables were generally generous (one of the things that tended to get missed on old Monty Haul discussions, or were shrugged off by people going "No one uses those. Or at least should."). And magic swords were, if I remember right, 20% of the general magic item table (as compared to some of the "scrolls" or "potions" specific magic yields).

 

[Incenjucar]

Yup. But they largely got to do that because the OD&D treasure tables were generally generous (one of the things that tended to get missed on old Monty Haul discussions, or were shrugged off by people going "No one uses those. Or at least should."). And magic swords were, if I remember right, 20% of the general magic item table (as compared to some of the "scrolls" or "potions" specific magic yields).

This causes enough fiction friction that there has been a lot of page space spent on classes, subclasses, etc. that get to keep their items as a class feature, most especially the Incarnum book for 3.5E, and more recently the Ikons used by Exemplars. PF2E has a lot of mechanics for holding onto old magic, such as transferring runes, it just doesn't apply to everything. It's not far from the weapon breaking in the latest Zelda games, easily the most controversial part of those games.

There are plenty of items you get to keep, or at least create newer/better versions of, which are comparable to other items with no improved version.

For example, you can get +3 Athletics via Armbands of Athleticism, but not via Lifting Belt. There's no narrative gain here, you just have to make an obvious math decision.

 

[Velderan]

I have run a couple PF2E campaigns where I essentially ignored the level on items and starting handing out awards around 4-7 levels higher than the PCs as a matter of course. I had to take that in to account for building encounters, but the net result was players feeling much more excited about the magic items they found.

Interesting, how did you adjust the encounters to compensate?