Why are character sheets so often badly designed?

[jasper]

strange thought. Grab a 3D printer and make 3d character sheets.

 

[aramis erak]

One thing that struck me yesterday, when my group made characters for the rpg Tianxia, is that the official character sheets often seem to be badly designed, with way too little space to write things.

Tianxia, is a FATE-based game, as such you have your five aspects. Yes, there was room to write the high concept, and the trouble, but not the other 3 aspects (yes you could put the other under the larger place for trouble, but would have beeen nice with its own header in that case). Likewise, a game where Kung Fu is to play a significant role, you would expect more space to write which shcools and techniques you know.

Or take various D20-games where characters can get bonuses of different types on skills from a range of various sources like race, class, feats, magical items, normal gear, and lots of other cases. You often have to bundle a lot of the relatively common bonuses together in a Misc-field (if it is even present). That makes it harder to track just where did that bonus come from, and will the bonus from a new thing stack or not, or just what is your effective skill-rating if you do not have access to your gear.

Or if they write out all the skills, then you usually have one skill called Knowledge (and there usually are max 10 such skills). If you are lucky, you get 2 or 3 tiny rows to write which knowledges you have (but often one set of boxes to note which bonuses you get). Why not actually write them all out? It isn't in these games like you will suddenly invent a new knowledge-skill.


edit: To show how ridiculous D20-systems can get, here is the spreadsheet I had to make for Starfinder to keep track of skill-values. The official character sheet had Total = Ranks + Class bonus + Ability mod + Misc. I played a Halfling operative, with the template of Ace Pilot, and specialization of Ghost. May look strange with the stats, but first column was my normal stats, the second the de facto stats due certain things heightening them (some due to biomods, and one due to the equivalent of an Ion Stone), and then the effective stat modifier after that.

In my experience, playtest character sheets are not part of the playtest; the designers of the sheets in release generally are layout guys, not designers. There are exceptions: Deep7, for example, explicitly wanted playtester comments on the Arrowflight 2E character sheet... but the delivered 2E was a totally different beast than the playtest - different core engine using similar ranged of numbers; BTRC aka Greg Porter also includes fully realized charactersheets for playtest.

Recently - the STA playtest sheets looked nothing like the release - simple word-doc tables, versus a full LCARS-style released sheet. The rules have focuses generally linked to specific disciplines, while the sheet doesn't. PC's max out at about 20 stress (12 att, +5 disc, +3 from Resolute talent) but the sheet has 24 pips for it... The weapons tables have 6 columns, with 7 ratings in them; the sheet has 3 entry spaces for the 6 ratings that are used in play. Name, type, size, damage, qualities, effects, and cost are the 7 ratings; the table puts effects in the damage line, but the sheet has only space for the damage number, forcing the effects to be in the qualities entry on the sheet, along with the qualities, type and size.

Modiphius' sheets for conan are pretty, but not practical. For JCOM, they aren't even pretty. But I've not run them.

Best usability I've seen in recent designs is the D&D 5E sheets... but even then,many players dislike the attributes and skills down the side. My homemade sheet has the attributes across, with the linked skills below, and then other abilities below that.

Vaessen, Alien, and other MYZ engine games seem to have sheets by people who have played the game, at least - there is a spot for everything, so far, in Vaessen and Alien, but the sheets for Alien are not comfortable for me. Vaessen's are.

 

[hawkeyefan]

My group and I used pregenerated characters when we played the Alien RPG for a few sessions not long ago, so we didn’t use the actual character sheet that comes with the game....but it looked pretty good. Nice design, clear, and usable.

Mothership has a great character sheet that’s also a flow chart for character creation. Pretty innovative. It’s a bit cluttered, but otherwise solid.

The Blades in the Dark playbook sheets and crew sheets are excellent. Pretty sure that they were laid out by the game’s author, so that likely explains why they’re so clear and usable.

Those are the best I can think of from recent memory.

 

[aramis erak]

My group and I used pregenerated characters when we played the Alien RPG for a few sessions not long ago, so we didn’t use the actual character sheet that comes with the game....but it looked pretty good. Nice design, clear, and usable.

I've had players literally unable to follow the logic of the official sheet. It's lacking spaces for some important things.

Mothership has a great character sheet that’s also a flow chart for character creation. Pretty innovative. It’s a bit cluttered, but otherwise solid.

A bit? For some, like me, totally obfuscating the utility.
The clearest sheet I've seen ever without being ugly was for Danger Patrol Alpha.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I've had players literally unable to follow the logic of the official sheet. It's lacking spaces for some important things.

A bit? For some, like me, totally obfuscating the utility.
The clearest sheet I've seen ever without being ugly was for Danger Patrol Alpha.

Ah I didn’t know the Alien sheet was missing anything. That stinks to hear. It looked good...but we used the pregenerated characters.

As for Mothership, the cluttered aspect is a drawback, but the flowchart is a bonus. I just highlighted a few things once my character was made, and that helped. So personally, the utility for character creation outweighed the clutter.

But this is one of the challenges anyone designing a character sheet faces....not everyone will agree about what’s useful or what looks good.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've had players literally unable to follow the logic of the official sheet. It's lacking spaces for some important things.

What things did your players run out of space? Can you also say what class they were and around what level?

I am interested because I am going to update my own custom character sheets in ENWorld download section, so this is a good time for me to gather more insight.

 

[aramis erak]

As for Mothership, the cluttered aspect is a drawback, but the flowchart is a bonus. I just highlighted a few things once my character was made, and that helped. So personally, the utility for character creation outweighed the clutter.

In any system where one doesn't expect to generate a new character frequently, putting the character generation flowchart on it is a misuse of space... space I'd rather have to additional notes.

My theory on character sheets is that only that which you'll be using in play needs to go on, and Character Generation doesn't count, not even in Traveller, despite what the boss says. (I run Marc Miller's BBS. More correctly, I select and coordinate the moderator staff, who do most of the actual work.)

I'd rather have the combat flowchart on the sheet instead of the character gen - because it's far more likely to be used multiple times.
Or the combat actions.

If I need the char gen more often than combat,there's bad juju at work.

 

[SavageCole]

While I don’t disagree with what’s been said, there is this. Whenever I buy a new game, before I even look at the rules a quick study of the character sheet usually gives me a broad stroke picture of how the game will play. Anyone else approach learning a new game the same way?

 

[hawkeyefan]

While I don’t disagree with what’s been said, there is this. Whenever I buy a new game, before I even look at the rules a quick study of the character sheet usually gives me a broad stroke picture of how the game will play. Anyone else approach learning a new game the same way?

Yeah, I think it gives (or should give, at least) a good idea of what you’ll be doing in the game. It shows the important elements of the character like stats and skills and the like.

 

[aramis erak]

Yeah, I think it gives (or should give, at least) a good idea of what you’ll be doing in the game. It shows the important elements of the character like stats and skills and the like.

Many, perhaps most, have elements that are not presented consistent with the rules..

Take for example, 2d20 star trek
The difference between effects and qualities is in how they are triggered. Qualities are automatic, effects require rolling effects on the effect (damage/work) dice. Lacking a separate effects space from the qualities forces players and GMs to have to remember which are which. It's a poor representation of the mechanics. (noting that they layout guys moved from 3 columns in the text in beta — damage, effects, qualities — to 2 in release — (damage+effects), qualities — notes that the layout isn't as tightly unified to the game as it should be overall.

Similar issues abound in various sheets. WotC sheets are some of the best-fit for mechanics, but I know that they accepted feedback in playtest about them.