Why are ghaeles Protective and not all eladrin?

[Alzrius]

Just a minor oddity I wanted to ask about.

I was perusing the SRD, and on a whim, decided to compare the inherent qualities of the various celestial sub-groupings (since the various fiend sub-groupings have since been removed).

So, I made myself a flowchart of all the powers listed under "Celestial Qualities" in the SRD as they're broken down by celestial sub-grouping. For the most part, this worked out fine...one thing was odd though, the Protective Aura quality mentions that ghaeles can use it, in addition to devas, solars, and planetars.

Is that right? What makes ghaeles, out of all other eladrins, so special (besides being the only eladrin in the MM) that they get a specific mention for that celestial quality (which should only apply to sub-groupings, not a specific creature), and not just under their personal listing?

It can't be that they just didn't want to use the term "eladrin" since that appears under the Resistances heading. I don't have my MM2 handy (iirc, there were more eladrins in there), so could anyone tell me if the eladrins in there have the Protective Aura (which would mean that "ghaeles" there should be "eladrins"), or is there another explanation?

 

[Gez]

The amount of eladrins in published 3e product is equal to 2.

The ghaele in the MM, and the firre in the Manual of the Planes (which also contains the leonal guardinal).

The MM2 contains two guardinals (cervidal and lupinal), the Tome of Horrors contains monadic and movanic deva.

With the ones in the MM, that's about all we have for celestials.

Looking at the MotP, the leonal has a protective aura, but not the firre.

Well, you just have to consider each group of celestial has a duly appointed protector: the ghaele for the eladrin, the leonal for the guardinal, and a yet-unpublished one for the archon (I would say the warden archon).

 

[Alzrius]

The amount of eladrins in published 3e product is equal to 2.The ghaele in the MM, and the firre in the Manual of the Planes

So it is. Darn, I thought the MM2 had more than just those two guardinals. Ah well.

Looking at the MotP, the leonal has a protective aura, but not the firre.

Quite odd, considering that the Protective Aura is not an inherent quality for guardinals either. For the leonal, is it listed under Celestial Qualities in their entry, or listed by itself with the rest of their special abilities?

Well, you just have to consider each group of celestial has a duly appointed protector: the ghaele for the eladrin, the leonal for the guardinal, and a yet-unpublished one for the archon (I would say the warden archon).

Forgive my skepticism, but nothing says that, at least not in the context of giving them special powers. While each "breed" of celestial may have a type that feels more inclined to protecting than the other types, there is nothing to suggest that these "duly appointed protectors" have special powers. In essence, saying that they're "protectors" is not a real reason. As such, the original question, about why ghaeles get a special mention, when it should just be a sub-grouping, is still unanswered (and now that goes for the leonal too, if its Protective Aura was under its Celestial Qualities listing).

 

[Gez]

A theory is valid as long as it isn't contradicted.

You asked why they have protective aura, rather than saying "I don't fuggin' know", I tried to find a plausible reason.

If you don't like this reason, well, find another one or forsake having a reason at all.

 

[Alzrius]

A theory is valid as long as it isn't contradicted.

I did contradict it though. In the D&D game, simply being considered something doesn't give you special abilities for it unless those are listed somewhere. Lots of creatures are protectors (arguably) and they don't have the Protective Aura quality. Simply put, it doesn't make sense for a specific listing where there should be a general one. Saying something is a "Celestial Quality" means it applies to all celestials, or various sub-groupings of those celestials, so its odd (and somewhat paradoxical) that a specific celestial gets called out there.

You asked why they have protective aura, rather than saying "I don't fuggin' know", I tried to find a plausible reason.

I understand you wanted to answer my question, and I thank you for that, but I wanted an answer that works within the rules presented, instead of inventing a rationale where one doesn't exist. If you don't know, you don't know, you don't need to make something up.

If you don't like this reason, well, find another one or forsake having a reason at all.

I'm looking for an answer that works within the context of the rules, thats all. It might just have been a mistake. My best guess is that someone is trying to work back in the extra powers afforded to "greater" celestials (as opposed to the "lesser" ones, those old terms from 2E), but its getting somewhat butchered along the way.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Saying something is a "Celestial Quality" means it applies to all celestials, or various sub-groupings of those celestials, so its odd (and somewhat paradoxical) that a specific celestial gets called out there.

Actually, this isn't quite true. If a "Celestial Quality" applied to all celestials, then they wouldn't feel a need to list them at all. They'd be listed in the front of the MM as a quality of all celestials and go without saying. The fact that the writers felt a need to list them out each and every time says to me that there's a variation in which celestials get which celestial qualities.

I thought Gez's rationalization was pretty good, really. Why wouldn't a celestial guardian have special powers? These are divine servants, after all. You're saying that just because they're guardians doesn't mean they have special powers. Look at it the other way. Perhaps because they have special powers, they were made into guardians.

 

[Alzrius]

Actually, this isn't quite true. If a "Celestial Quality" applied to all celestials, then they wouldn't feel a need to list them at all. They'd be listed in the front of the MM as a quality of all celestials and go without saying. The fact that the writers felt a need to list them out each and every time says to me that there's a variation in which celestials get which celestial qualities.

There is indeed a variation...its that its broken down by celestial sub-grouping. Things can apply as a whole to all celestials, or to certain "breeds" of celestials (archon, eladrin, etc.). Its an abberation to list one specific type of celestial, as that isn't what you'd do in a listing that is supposed to be for a group; in that instance, it should just be listed under that creature's specific entry.

I thought Gez's rationalization was pretty good, really. Why wouldn't a celestial guardian have special powers? These are divine servants, after all. You're saying that just because they're guardians doesn't mean they have special powers. Look at it the other way. Perhaps because they have special powers, they were made into guardians.

It was a good rationalization, but I wanted an explanation, not a rationalization (hence why I posted it here in the rules forum; I want to know what rule was in effect here). There is no category of "celestial guardian". Gez made it up, and while its good, its not the actual answer here (whatever that may be). Saying that "because they have special powers, they were made into guardians" doesn't help much either, since it doesn't answer why they specifically have those powers in the first place (as opposed to all others) which is what I want to know. As it stands now, I'm relatively confident that I know the answer, which seems to be that its an attempt to re-introduce a power difference between "greater" and "lesser" celestials.