Why are Magic Items listed in the PHB?

[SDOgre]

Okay, I'm old school.

I've been playing since '84 when I was in 6th grade. And I've always been a "magic items are special and mysterious" kind of guy.

I always hated the idea that characters could just manufacture what they couldn't find. In 3E I made permanent magic item feat. If you wanted to make a permanent magic item you had to take this feat in addition to the others. It kept most characters away from it. They stuck to potions, scrolls, and wands.

Good.

Now, like a wave that is toppling over me, characters not only can make magic items. ANY CLASS can make them and they're all listed in the PHB!!!

Holy crap for crap.

No mystery. Just stats.

Sigh. Couldn't WotC put them in the DMG and let DMs decide whether to make the list public?

This may be my biggest dissapointment with 4E. A big change in flavor.

 

[Yaezakura]

It's listed in the PHB to let the players know what's available. When making a 10th level character for a new game, you don't want to have to pull out the otherwise useless DMG to come up with items to equip yourself with.

There's also the fact that the default assumption is that magic items can be bought and sold, perhaps with some effort, but the option is there. In those cases, the players need to know the prices involved and what they're looking at.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, for one thing, a player can now design a character at high level without referencing the DMG.

DMs are also advised to give out magic items they think the players would like. (Afterall, if you don't, they'll just take the money, look up the item and make it).

It's also part of items being (supposedly) a bit less important in 4e. In 1e, the totally random, arbitrarily-powerful items that your DM rolled out of the DMG or made up out of thin air could end up doing a lot more to define and empower your character than any choice you made. In 2e, it wasn't much different. In 3e, items were less important for defining your character, but vital for remaining competative when it came to basic power. In 4e, that's supposed to be less so - but you still absolutely /need/ magic weapons/implements and armor/amulets/cloaks to keep up with the monsters +1 to everything/level vs your +1/2.

 

[SDOgre]

There's also the fact that the default assumption is that magic items can be bought and sold, perhaps with some effort, but the option is there. In those cases, the players need to know the prices involved and what they're looking at.

You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. Its' rare to find a shop or a bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. (PHB p.223)

It seems to be saying the purchasing magic items is rare. And as far as selling them you only get one-fifth the price. So it doesn't seem that selling magic items will be that common.

 

[SDOgre]

Well, for one thing, a player can now design a character at high level without referencing the DMG.

Oh yeah, I get that. And I see value in it. But in the past if I had players design higher level characters I asked them what kinds of items they'd like in very general terms (a magic two-handed weapon, magic armor, etc.) and then I'd give it to them.

I controlled the flow of magic items just like any DM would if those characters had climbed the XP charts like normal.

 

[Gloombunny]

Since players can make items, it's reasonable for the items to be in PHB. You shouldn't have to reference the DMG to find out what an ability on your character sheet can do.


So, you don't like that players can make items. You'll have to make a houserule discouraging or forbidding it, just like you did in 3.x. A game can't be perfect to everyone. If it were up to me, the PHB would have magic items but wouldn't have elves or halflings. Just be glad I'm not in charge of what gets in.

 

[Shroomy]

You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. Its' rare to find a shop or a bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. (PHB p.223)

It seems to be saying the purchasing magic items is rare. And as far as selling them you only get one-fifth the price. So it doesn't seem that selling magic items will be that common.

Based off of the available adventures, magic items themselves don't seem to be that common.

 

[Yaezakura]

You can sometimes buy magic items just as you can mundane equipment. Its' rare to find a shop or a bazaar that routinely sells magic items, except perhaps the lowest-level items. (PHB p.223)

It seems to be saying the purchasing magic items is rare. And as far as selling them you only get one-fifth the price. So it doesn't seem that selling magic items will be that common.

Perhaps at low-levels. But very large cities would likely have more available. And let's not forget that in later levels of play, a trip to the City of Brass for a shopping spree wouldn't be unlikely.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I don't know how you could play 3e past level 10 or so with out permanent magic items, unless your characters buffed like hell. Didn't many players own all 3 books anyay?
But thats neither here nor there.

Few easy rules oughta fix your problem:
1) PCs can't make magic items.
2) Assuming you want fewer magic items in general give all PCs a +1 enhancement bonus per 5 levels to attack, damage, AC and all defense. This doesn't stack with the bonus from magic items, which will often be higher. Now you can give out less magic gear and your PCs shouldn't fall far behind on the power curve.
3) This one is a lot harder than the other 2. Make lots of custom magic items. Obviously use the ones in the PHB as guidelines. And use magic items from anywhere and everywhere as inspiration.

 

[drothgery]

Well, like everyone's said up-thread PCs are expected to have a certain number of magic items, and PCs can make magic items. So unless you want PCs to drag a DMG to the game so they can look up the abilities of their magic items, it makes sense for them to be in the PHB.

Now, if magic items were very rare and special for D&D PCs in campaigns played with the core assumptions (in any edition; most monsters that were a threat to mid-level 2e characters required magic items to hit), then magic items wouldn't belong in the PHB. Or in the DMG ala prior editions, either; there'd be something like the 'artifacts' section and rules for creating magic treasure -- and that's it.