Why are Magic Items listed in the PHB?

This is not the first edition of D&D, nor even the second to allow PCs to create magic items. Nor is it unique in that characters other than Wizards are able to create them. Also, it should be noted that the items PCs can create are of lower level only. The really awesome items of 1 to 4 levels higher are still DM choice. To that end, I think 4e is much more like 1&2e.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

SDOgre said:
I ran a long lasting Greyhawk Campaign in 3E where there were magic shops in all major cities and most towns. The characters could buy and sell, but of course I controlled what was available. Some by my design, some by dice rolls.
I agree with your sentiments to an extent. However, I really feel that 4E does a better job of making finding a magic treasure important than anything since 1e (and I would maybe say house-ruled 1e at that, since a number of modules contained their share of the Phat Lewts).

First of all, the only way to get magic items of above your level is to find them in the dungeon. And as DM you still control what items are available to find or buy, as well as the availability of ritual components and scrolls. What's more the fact that you can only recoup 1/5 of the cost of a bought item will make players think twice about buying them. And items are at least as expensive to manufacture as they are to purchase outright.

Now there is a 'treasure standard' to worry about. A typical party of five will acquire 4 special items (level above their own) in the course of a level, or 4 items per PC in 5 levels. If you only count items that are at least the PCs' level as 'significant' then by the end of level 5 the PCs will have topped out at 14 significant magic items, nearly 3 per character! Compared to most of the 1e games I played in or ran that's a ludicrous amount of magic... But compared to 3.5 or most of the 1e games I've read about online it's not too bad...

Of course players will likely have 'leftover' items from lower levels and/or lower-level items they have purchased. Personally I've come to terms with this by worrying not about how many items they have that are 'magical', but rather how many are 'special'. The intent of keeping magic items rare was to keep them special. 4E is much more tightly balanced and assumes a certain amount of extra "plusses" hanging on any given PC. So, personally, I've come to terms with the fact that a player might want (or need) to buy himself an extra +2 with some skill, or some such. Gold is a resource, meant to be used. Sure 6 or 7 levels ago that same item would have been a cool thing to find in a chest somewhere, but it's not that big of a deal anymore... I know that's not especially cool from an in-character / immersion perspective, but that's the price you pay for having 30 levels that will play out in the time it used to take for 9 or 10...

And once per level I still get to drop something in there that will (if I'm doing my job as DM right) make the players sit up and say "Wow!" I think I shouldn't have that much trouble making up custom items that aren't in the PHB, and I can still tie items into the plot. If I want an item to remain significant for more than 5 levels or so I can "upgrade" it (by replacing it's old effect for a new one or just raising it's level if appropriate), possibly doing so at a dramatic moment in the middle of a fight for that extra "Wow!" factor. (And if I want to I can balance the money side of the equation out by dropping an extra bit of treasure somewhere equal to the old version of the item's sale price.)

So overall (much like the rest of 4E) I don't see it as such a huge deal, in the greater scheme of things. The magic items that PCs can buy or create are really little more than powered-up equipment. It's the stuff that they find in the dungeon, that only the DM can place, that's really cool (at least for a few levels...)
 

Also I think the general rule now is that players should never have any reason to open any book other then the player's handbook. Alot of the new magic items have daily powers that the players will need to reference when they use them, and that means they go in the PHB.

As for making items, keep in mind that you can't make an item that's higher then your level. But items you find (by default) will be 1-4 higher then your level. This means that items you find will always be notably better then ones you can make.
 

If you follow the loot-giving rules in the DMG, the PCs will rarely have more than 1-2 items of a higher level than them (after receiving all items at 5th level, but before reaching 6th, they will have 6/6/7/6/7/8/6/7/8/9, which is 2 items per PC, but 4 of those items become normal very soon). The PCs also get enough gold per level for 2 items of that level. That means that if you look at the items available from level-1 on up, just after a party has leveled, you have 16 total, approximately 1 level-1 item per PC, 1 higher-level item per PC, and 1 equal-level item per PC. If we stretch this out to PCs wielding the 6-7 different items they probably have by middle levels, then at, say, 7th level, a PC is likely wearing the following: 8th+, 7h, 6th, 5th, 4th & 3rd. That's not all that crazy.

Items of equal or lower level are plentiful, but they are basically a part of the character sheet - just like you let the PCs choose their spells and feats, magic items do things that the PCs should be free to choose amongst. It makes it more reasonable to distribute items properly if the PCs don't feel like the only way they can get something worth having is through treasure. Otherwise, every time there's a treasure item that is usable by multiple characters, they will have to fight over it. If gold can be exchanged for ueful items, then it become much easier to divvy treasure (and makes treasure that is only money seem much more worthwhile).
 

Kaomera, very thoughtful reply.

I have DMed for more almost 25 years. I can house rule with the best of them. What I can't house rule is...

"Don't look at the magic items in the PHB."

I can make house rules so that characters can't make them or buy them or sell them. But I can't house rule that list in the PHB away.

That's why it erks me.

Also, this idea of "the players giving the DM a wish list of magic items" an the DM choosing from that list.

Are you kidding me?

Maybe they should make a wish list of monsters to fight and I'll choose from that list as well.

Give me a break.

That's where the new design met D&D and D&D lost.
 


SDOgre said:
Maybe they should make a wish list of monsters to fight and I'll choose from that list as well.

I just read a post today, wish I could remember in what thread, where a DM related doing exactly that. Asked his players what sorts of quests, adventures, and encounters they were most interested in; then worked those into the campaign.

People are supposed to enjoy playing D&D. If fulfilling their interests makes them happy, and you enjoy it too, then it's a good idea.
 

Er, this may sound stupid but why can't a DM do both?

I mean, give out both requested treasure, DM-designed treasure and random treasure.

For every level in adventuring, a 5 person party gets 4 magic items above their level and money equal to 2 magic items of their level.

You give out money for two PCs to get what they want of their level, then use the items of levels+1-3 for the other 3 PCs and the highest level item, PC level +4 is the DM special.

To me, this looks like it hits all the issues people want in treasure. PCs get what they want and the DM ALSO gets to surprise the player with cool magic items (and its unlikely the PCs will sell said item)
 


SDOgre said:
What I can't house rule is...

"Don't look at the magic items in the PHB."

Nor could you house rule "Don't look at the magic items in the DMG." either, and I've yet to find an experienced D&D player that wasn't familiar with the range of items available.

No matter where this information is players will get to see it. In the PHB is just more convenient because it is after all an item the players will use in the end.

If you want a bit more mystery invent your own items the PHB is very limited after all.
 

Remove ads

Top