Why are Magic Items listed in the PHB?
- Thread starter SDOgre
- Start date
charlesatan
Explorer
No more players buying the DMG solely for the magic items section.
I'm glad, magic items are finally in the right place: in the PHB.
Being an experienced DM I will have a very good idea what kind of items the players require and keep that in mind when selecting treasure. I will also make sure the treasure will still make sense when it's found. Mostly, the desired items will be in the hands of enemies that make good use of them.
Regarding monster wish-lists:
Most campaigns have a certain theme. So certain types of monsters will be encountered more often than others. This is the kind of information I give out in advance - before I even start working on the campaign.
This allows the players to make informed choices when creating their characters. More isn't required. There will still be encounters of every kind once in a while. If a party cannot deal with a certain kind of threat, they'll have to adapt and find ways to deal with it. That's part of the challenge. And without challenge there's no fun.
Well, I had exactly the same thought when I read this. So, I'm with you in that regard. It's a bit too much. At least for me. It _might_ be good advice for a beginning DM, though.SDOgre said:
Being an experienced DM I will have a very good idea what kind of items the players require and keep that in mind when selecting treasure. I will also make sure the treasure will still make sense when it's found. Mostly, the desired items will be in the hands of enemies that make good use of them.
Regarding monster wish-lists:
Most campaigns have a certain theme. So certain types of monsters will be encountered more often than others. This is the kind of information I give out in advance - before I even start working on the campaign.
This allows the players to make informed choices when creating their characters. More isn't required. There will still be encounters of every kind once in a while. If a party cannot deal with a certain kind of threat, they'll have to adapt and find ways to deal with it. That's part of the challenge. And without challenge there's no fun.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
The simple answer to your question is: magic items are in the PHB because it makes buying equipment and upgrading your character easier. Fewer books, less borrowing and sharing, and so on.
That said, simple is not always preferable. A lot of gamers like myself like to restrict the availability of magic items in the game. I imagine that having a smorgassboard of magic items in the PHB would cause arguments...everything from "how come I can't buy this?" to "how come I can't buy another one of those?" What is simple in one respect, becomes rather complicated in another.
That said, simple is not always preferable. A lot of gamers like myself like to restrict the availability of magic items in the game. I imagine that having a smorgassboard of magic items in the PHB would cause arguments...everything from "how come I can't buy this?" to "how come I can't buy another one of those?" What is simple in one respect, becomes rather complicated in another.
DandD
First Post
Seeing as in 3rd edition, people already complained about the "christmas tree"-effect that was infact needed to stay competitive against the various monsters with higher challenge rating, and how they always needed to look into the DMG, people complaining that the players who will need the items to stay competitive (alas, they couldn't get rid of the christmas tree, but at least shrunk it down) now finally get the information they need in their vicinity is a little bit hard for me to follow.
I'm glad to know that this is one of the changes made for the right reasons. Besides, magic items stop to be mysterious as soon as you assign stats to them, which starts the moment you give out the magical do-hickey to the player character, unless you're one of those lame game masters who don't notice how they disrupt the fun of everybody else by stalling the information-output, and then searching for the magical effects somewhere on page xxz-whatever. But these people are fortunately very rare, and very lonely.
I'm glad to know that this is one of the changes made for the right reasons. Besides, magic items stop to be mysterious as soon as you assign stats to them, which starts the moment you give out the magical do-hickey to the player character, unless you're one of those lame game masters who don't notice how they disrupt the fun of everybody else by stalling the information-output, and then searching for the magical effects somewhere on page xxz-whatever. But these people are fortunately very rare, and very lonely.
That's because of a major switch in 4E, not only in design method, but in the game's philosophy too.
Basicly 4E is made to be more fun. WotC idea of fun on the player's side is "Do cool stuff, do it without effort". And you can find this throughout the game, not only in the magic items side of the system. Nothing's wrong with this, really.
You could find this silly (and I find this a bit silly too), but still, there's a whole lot of ppl out there who likes (and will like) the game WotC designed. I'll have a lot of fun with 4E the way it is too. No doubt, however, my long time playing group will continue enjoying the "old school" way more. And consider my long time playing group is not playing d&D, but rather a D&D inspired housebrew sistem.
Letting players know about magic items specifics is not old school.
Giving out X magic items every level is not old school. Nor it is giving away a fixed amount of gold pieces.
Making players write wishlistes is terribly not old school. (and beware, DM not accepting wishlistes =/= DM never giving out items or monsters his players love)
The fact is, 4E is not old school at all. It is just WotC school. It's supposed to appeal the masses, not old school players.
Basicly 4E is made to be more fun. WotC idea of fun on the player's side is "Do cool stuff, do it without effort". And you can find this throughout the game, not only in the magic items side of the system. Nothing's wrong with this, really.
You could find this silly (and I find this a bit silly too), but still, there's a whole lot of ppl out there who likes (and will like) the game WotC designed. I'll have a lot of fun with 4E the way it is too. No doubt, however, my long time playing group will continue enjoying the "old school" way more. And consider my long time playing group is not playing d&D, but rather a D&D inspired housebrew sistem.
Letting players know about magic items specifics is not old school.
Giving out X magic items every level is not old school. Nor it is giving away a fixed amount of gold pieces.
Making players write wishlistes is terribly not old school. (and beware, DM not accepting wishlistes =/= DM never giving out items or monsters his players love)
The fact is, 4E is not old school at all. It is just WotC school. It's supposed to appeal the masses, not old school players.
Last edited:
Aus_Snow
First Post
This is just one of so many things I strongly dislike in the new edition.
But that's not a problem, as I won't be at any time having to play or DM the, ah. . . thing.
Fortunate I am.
Oh, and I think other people have well and truly thrashed out the subjective pros and cons, in this thread. So, um, no need.
But that's not a problem, as I won't be at any time having to play or DM the, ah. . . thing.
Fortunate I am.
Oh, and I think other people have well and truly thrashed out the subjective pros and cons, in this thread. So, um, no need.
Again I repeat.
The default situation in 3e/4e is that magical items can be created by players in a DM-independent manner.
Furthermore, the last 2 editions of D&D have allowed for both the selling and buying of magic items by RAW.
This is NOT a 4e vs 3e argument but a 3e/4e vs 1e/2e.
As long as magical items CAN be created independently of the DM by RAW, then the magical items must be also where the players could actually get to them easily.
The default situation in 3e/4e is that magical items can be created by players in a DM-independent manner.
Furthermore, the last 2 editions of D&D have allowed for both the selling and buying of magic items by RAW.
This is NOT a 4e vs 3e argument but a 3e/4e vs 1e/2e.
As long as magical items CAN be created independently of the DM by RAW, then the magical items must be also where the players could actually get to them easily.
OP it seems your main concern is that your players know the stats in the PHB.
Did none of them buy previous DMG books? Do they not read message forums? I wouldnt be surprised if there downloadable sheets of magic item stats. People will know about it anyways. Now this doesnt mean that they know the stats of the actual magic items presented to them in game. Not all flaming swords will look the same nor actaully will be on fire 24/7.
I have a bigger issue that the characters learn the stats for free after a 5 minute rest. Why even bother with that just give them the stats. If a Gm was wanting mystery they can add it there. The players knowing all the stats (which already happened in every edition) is different from them knowing the stats of a particular in game item.
Did none of them buy previous DMG books? Do they not read message forums? I wouldnt be surprised if there downloadable sheets of magic item stats. People will know about it anyways. Now this doesnt mean that they know the stats of the actual magic items presented to them in game. Not all flaming swords will look the same nor actaully will be on fire 24/7.
I have a bigger issue that the characters learn the stats for free after a 5 minute rest. Why even bother with that just give them the stats. If a Gm was wanting mystery they can add it there. The players knowing all the stats (which already happened in every edition) is different from them knowing the stats of a particular in game item.
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