Why are Magic Items listed in the PHB?

[Fifth Element]

I think part of the new magic item issue is one of instant gratification. If you want something, as long as you can afford it (or get it on credit) you have the RIGHT to it. Now.

We've a whole new generation who've been nursed on that teat. I'm sure this magic item policy works well with them.

I'm just old school.

I see. Players getting something they want in a game they're supposed to enjoy is a problem of some kind.

 

[Henry]

I see. Players getting something they want in a game they're supposed to enjoy is a problem of some kind.

It is if the DM allows them to get EVERYTHING they want. Fortunately, it's no harder to house-rule what's available than it ever has been in D&D. Is there any player of over a year or two experience out there who DOESN'T know what magic items are in the magic items section of any edition? Maybe based on they way we've always played or something, but I don't see it as a problem. If anything, there's MORE uniqueness and interesting properties to magic items that there was with 3e, because there are fewer magic items that just hand out bonuses, and most every item also has a special property that's not just a solid bonus number to a stat.

Me, I do miss "gauntlets of Ogre Power" that actually gave you "Ogre Strength"...

 

[Fifth Element]

It is if the DM allows them to get EVERYTHING they want.

Even if that's what I wrote (which it isn't), why is that necessarily A Bad Thing? It is a paternal attitude of "DM knows best"? Or something else?

If the players enjoy getting everything they want, and you as DM enjoy giving it to them, how is that a problem?

 

[Shadeydm]

Me, I do miss "gauntlets of Ogre Power" that actually gave you "Ogre Strength"...

QFT!!!

Give me the old school Cloak of Elvenkind any day.

 

[AllisterH]

Again, (and I see no opponents have challenged this)

Magic items, by RAW, are fully creatable and under the control of the players since 3E, They can be created and the default situation is that anything in the core books is buyable assuming it falls under a location's wealth limit.

Again, explain why the players should be looking up things in the DMG that they fully control? This is akin to making equipment a DMG-only table.

I can understand this in 1e/2e where magic items were under the control of the DM but 3e/4e?

 

[Henry]

Even if that's what I wrote (which it isn't),

I didn't say it was. If players get some of what they want, it's fun.

why is that necessarily A Bad Thing? It is a paternal attitude of "DM knows best"? Or something else?

If the players enjoy getting everything they want, and you as DM enjoy giving it to them, how is that a problem?

Because in my experience, if the DM lets you have everything you want, as in, low-challenge monsters, everything in treasure they ask for, not having to work for anything, then it's not a game, it's a thought excercise, and pointless to me. If someone wants to do it, far be it from me to stop them, and if someone construes that as me talking about "badwrongfun", that's fine too. What I'm pointing out is that it's no harder for DMs to restrict Magic items, or even character classes, races, and even basic equipment, than it ever was. 4E
's no different.

Some DMs I know thought sunrods and tanglefoot bags were stupid, and disallowed them. That's fine. Some thought that Half-dragons and the like were stupid and broken, and that's fine too. Some opened the door to any and every published race and class - doesn't bother me any, because I have my own prefs when running the game. But a game where the DM offers no challenge or hint of failure is a game I will pass on, because if I wanted that I'd go play Half-Life with all the cheat codes on.

 

[wayne62682]

I like the idea of magic items in the PHB because it takes away the "Mother, may I?" factor that was prevalent in previous editions. The DM should not be able to tell me what sort of character I can play, nor should he/she be able to tell me what magic items my character has. Also there's the "Players don't have to buy the DMG" factor which has already been explained.

God forbid that the game be changed so that the players have input instead of being strung along (directly or indirectly) by the DM. You call it catering to a sense of self-entitlement, I call it doing things the right way.

 

[MerricB]

Wait until the Tome of Treasures (or whatever it's called) comes out and ban it to your players. That way, the players will only know a basic set of items and you can have new ones to baffle them.

Cheers!

 

[Mallus]

Magic items are listed in the PHB for convenience. Frankly, I wish they could have slimmed things down to the point there was only a single core book. That would have been more convenient still.

re: mystery. The idea that segregating magic item descriptions in the DMG somehow keeps them out of the hands of players and thus 'preserves the mystery' is simply ludicrous. What stops a motivated player from buying the DMG? Or merely recalling items from other games? Either the players accept the DM's authority to restrict/modify/remove items from their campaigns or they don't.

 

[hong]

Because in my experience, if the DM lets you have everything you want, as in, low-challenge monsters, everything in treasure they ask for, not having to work for anything, then it's not a game, it's a thought excercise, and pointless to me.

Ahem. You still have to KILL THE MONSTER before you can TAKE ITS STUFF. Not to mention that you can never be sure which monster will have the stuff you're hoping to get.