Why are some powers build specific?

[Stalker0]

I was taking a browse of some of the rogue powers today, and I noticed the 3rd level power trickster's blade. Its a straightforward power that allows you to add your charisma modifier to your AC.

Here's the thing, it doesn't require that the rogue be an artful dodger. And it got me thinking, why does any power need to be build specific?

I'm all for the different class abilities for rogues and warlords, its a nice way to set two different flavors of rogues apart. But for example, if a rogue is playing a brutal scoundrel, then he's likely going to have a good strength and not the best cha. So if he wants to take an artful dodger power that utilizes charisma, he's not going to be as good at it. The mechanics in this way are self balancing.

So is there any other good reason you all can see to keep powers restricted by build as they are?

 

[Shroomy]

I don't have the books in front of me, but I think you may be reading those powers wrong. I think that any rogue could take the power, it just that an artful dodger would get an additional bonus, similar to how warlock powers work on a pact by pact basis.

 

[Nikosandros]

Shroomy is right: there are several powers that give an extra bonus depending on the build, but any rogue can take them. It's the same as some warlock powers.

On the other hand, trickster's blade doesn't' mention the builds at all.

 

[Plane Sailing]

So is there any other good reason you all can see to keep powers restricted by build as they are?

I don't think so.

I think they should have just left them self balancing - just use the 'slide Cha bonus spaces' for everyone.

There are several aspects to powers that make me think they were done by separate people who didn't talk together about some of their assumptions!

Cheers

 

[MrMyth]

I think the goal is to allow for characters to be more distinct. If it just comes down to stats, then a Str 14, Cha 14 Artful Dodger handles exactly the same as a Str 14, Cha 14 Brutal Scoundrel.

I think they certainly could have gone with just a stat-based system and there wouldn't be any major loss in doing so. That's essentially what the ranger breakdown is - Dex powers for ranged attacks, Str powers for melee. No bonuses for either, because they are already split up into those categories.

For some classes, you need the different build restrictions because they base off the same stat - Warlock, for example. Pretty much all the bonus features are based around Int - which every Warlock will likely have as a secondary stat, regardless of pact.

In any case, I do think it helps keep each build special. With rogues, or with warlords, or with other classes that operate like this... I think it would be a bit too easy to really cherry-pick for optimization if the build itself didn't feed into these powers, and that would result in some builds falling by the wayside.

For example - if I had a rogue with Str 14 and Cha 18, in the current system, Artful Dodger would probably be the build choice I would go with, so that I could take advantage of my higher charisma for the various benefits. But if none of those benefits were actually keyed to the build choice, I'd be Brutal Scoundrel all day long, while taking all the powers that benefit from Charisma. It would just be better for me to get +2 damage on all my attacks, rather than +4 AC vs Opportunity Attacks (which a careful rogue can avoid anyway.)

But if the build bonuses come into play, that decision isn't so easy. And, as such, the build choice becomes more character defining, and a 20th level Artful Dodger and a 20th level Brutal Scoundrel play rather differently - even if the difference in their stats isn't all that extreme. And that, I think, is a good thing.

 

[Jack Colby]

The powers justify the builds, the builds justify the powers. All in all, an added layer of complication and detail that adds little to actual play.

 

[Umbran]

The powers justify the builds, the builds justify the powers. All in all, an added layer of complication and detail that adds little to actual play.

I'm going to disagree. It doesn't seem to me to be a matter of mutual justification. It's an additional layer of differentiation - a way to make a couple of characters notably different without making a whole new class for them, or making them multiclass. That's not an unreasonable design path.

 

[Staffan]

Using builds to differentiate powers also allows for more expansion later. This is most obvious with warlock powers, though (since the creative space for more warlock types is a lot bigger than the creative space for rogue types that aren't linked to stats).

I could also have seen them go down a similar path with cleric (different gods) and wizard (different magic traditions) powers, but apparently they didn't.

 

[Nikosandros]

I could also have seen them go down a similar path with cleric (different gods) and wizard (different magic traditions) powers, but apparently they didn't.

I still hope to see something like that in the Arcane and Divine Power books.