Why are Warforged so bad?

[I'm A Banana]

KM: You have convinced me. If I ever run in Eberron. Warforged will have the humanoid type. That is WAY too many spells and monsters to have a defacto immunity too.

The biggest offender is their immunity to poison, but disease, paralysis, and level drain also make up a lot (more than I expected with disease, actually). And yeah, the idea of Warforged using Alter Self to turn into golems is not a pretty picture either.

I'm glad I've convinced you a bit. Hope you have fun. Hope the player who wants to be a warforged doesn't hate me.

 

[Arnwyn]

And why do you feel the need to cast aspersions and deride my skill because I don't? I mean, seriously, did I hurt your feelings or something?

Nah, it's just Storm Raven. Look at the guy's other 1552 posts.

 

[Seeten]

You know, I am all in agreement that this race wouldnt work in Midnight's desperate need to eat, and gather supplies. They dont need to eat. It'd mulch a big part of the atmosphere.

Honestly, though, no adventuring party I have EVER been with has ever had this as a recurring theme. My Necromancer is about to become a Lich and have a list of immunities far longer than the Warforged list, and yet, no one is complaining about that...a 5th level spell, "Kiss of the Vampire" turns me into a vampire now with all their immunities for an extended time frame, and no one is saying I ruin all encounters, or poison or hunger are worthless. (They are, but so?)

I dunno, I dont really get the objection. They dont eat. Ok, my response is so what? You want to challenge a party with a barbarian or druid or ranger with hunger? It just seems silly. Yes, they dont eat, but you can just take a couple of liber mortis feats and be immune to eating, sleeping, light fort and fatigue. So I guess if these things are so all fired dangerous and thought provoking, WOTC shouldnt have made the Tomb-Tainted Soul line of feats. My Necromancer has the feat chain, and my DM isnt the sort who actually pays attention to anything, and none of them has ever been useful anyway, so obviously it isnt something most people take much into account, because it doesnt appear broadly useful.

It'd have to be a pretty grim, pretty low level game for the things we are discussing to matter at all, and I cant imagine PC's with DMG style wealth levels to ever "go hungry".

I enjoy hearing the objections, though, I just dont really get them. When I looked at the race, my first thought was underpowered compared to humans.

 

[ThirdWizard]

My Necromancer is about to become a Lich and have a list of immunities far longer than the Warforged list, and yet, no one is complaining about that...

Lich have an LA +4. Warforged have an LA +0. That's a very large difference.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm glad I've convinced you a bit. Hope you have fun. Hope the player who wants to be a warforged doesn't hate me.

Don't worry - there won't be any.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The biggest offender is their immunity to poison, but disease, paralysis, and level drain also make up a lot (more than I expected with disease, actually). And yeah, the idea of Warforged using Alter Self to turn into golems is not a pretty picture either.

I'm glad I've convinced you a bit. Hope you have fun. Hope the player who wants to be a warforged doesn't hate me.

Well, you haven't convinced me.

Of course, I can see where you're coming from. I've seen Warforged in action, from both sides of the screen(though haven't played one, I prefer Changelings), and they haven't been a problem at all. The LA +0 is fine, and it really doesn't need to be changed from my experience.

 

[Belen]

I'm glad I've convinced you a bit. Hope you have fun. Hope the player who wants to be a warforged doesn't hate me.

None of my players want to play in Eberron. I think a few are interested in Arcana Evolved and I really like Midnight, but no one seems to be a fan of Eberron.

Actually, it looks like everyone wants a pirate or sea voyage campaign next, but we'll see.

 

[fanboy2000]

So what you're saying is that anyone with the exact perfect class and choice of play can be fine, while everyone else is screwed to varying degrees? That's my point too, you know. ~_^

Well, it depends. There is no way I would play a warforged wizard and take any of the body feats at 1st. What I am saying is that Admanitne Body isn't a nessesary as you think it is. There are trade-offs. Both of the body feats take away flexability, something you seem to value a great deal. The reason many people tought it as a good feat, is because those people understand the loss of flexability and don't mind it.

My character is going high strength Barb2/fighter2/sorc/Dragon Disciple.

Now we're getting somewhere.

I think you got the wrong feat. Personaly, I would have taken toughness before I would take Adamantine Body. I doubt I would have taken Mithral Body with that class list. You gave up flexability, something I think you value already, and proceded to build a character that requires the upmost flexability. On top of that, you have 3 leves in two diffrent arcane spellcasting classes, and a 35% Arcane spell failure rate. The flexability loss isn't that great do dedicated fighters, barbarians, and clerics. Heck, clearics benifite the most from Adamantine Body. Monks, Druids, and any arcane spellcaster simply don't benefit from the feat.

 

[Argonel]

I don't ahve a lot to contribute, but I thought I'd point out a red herring. A warforged could theoretically turn themselves into a golem with Alter self except for 2 points. First there aren't any golems with less than 5 HD which is the upper limit of the Alter self spell. Second you wouldn't gain any of the special attacks or special qualities of the golem and may lose some of the special qualities of being warforged depending on DM ruling.

In summary it may be technically possible ot turn into a golem or at least a construct with alter self there would be little if any benefit to it. From what I've seen from my players the 1 warforged in the party is reasonably balanced. Yes he has a number of immunities but that doesn't make him invulnerable. It isn't necessarily that beneficial to have someone on watch all night when they don't have good spot and listen scores and don't have lowlight vision or darkvision.

 

[ThirdWizard]

In summary it may be technically possible ot turn into a golem or at least a construct with alter self there would be little if any benefit to it.

That's why you use Polymorph.