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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6242733" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>You mean Elliot the Retrievals Specialist who even one of the writers has compared to Batman? Who <em>almost never kills?</em> Elliot has the same goals as the rest of the party there - and is in some ways the most challenging to play. <em>Elliot is the escape route.</em> When Nate's plan has gone completely pear shaped that's when Elliot normally comes in to play. But he's <em>competent</em> at most of the other roles (unlike Sam who would actually slow the rest down at exploration) and works towards the same goals as the others by the same methods (again unlike Sam).</p><p></p><p>Sam on the other hand makes the combined team weaker much of the time. He slows everyone else down on foot. (Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn could pursue the Uruk-hai incredibly fast; not if they have to drag Sam around with them, so options are off the table). In combat he needs to be protected and doesn't contribute other than by kill stealing. And hope isn't something that's a major issue with any of the three characters named. And Kamikaze Midget's attempt to hack him in to the combats by making him kill steal are just going to annoy the other three.</p><p></p><p>Again, not that Samwise Gamgee is a worthless character. Merely that by picking him in a party with just Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli, the player is saying "I want to force themes like hope on your characters, I don't want them to be able to show off their competences in exploration, and I want to sit out of the part of the game where you all come together."</p><p></p><p>The equivalent to adding Sam to the Leverage team wouldn't be adding Elliot, but adding Jayne from Firefly. Again, nothing against Jayne as a character. Or putting Jayne on the Firefly crew. But he doesn't belong with the Leverage crew.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Tell it to Loki. If you are a decently creative illusionist, what kills people isn't the illusions. It's the truth they don't see. Combat with an illusionist in an open field should leave the guy the illusionist was fighting swinging at air and the illusionist appearing behind them and plunging a dagger into their kidneys.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This applies only to illusionists who are monomaniac enough to rely entirely on their spells. Rather than carry a dagger as well. Of course D&D has historically been <em>terrible</em> at handling such illusions and shell games. But that isn't a problem with the illusionist so much as the implementation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6242733, member: 87792"] You mean Elliot the Retrievals Specialist who even one of the writers has compared to Batman? Who [I]almost never kills?[/I] Elliot has the same goals as the rest of the party there - and is in some ways the most challenging to play. [I]Elliot is the escape route.[/I] When Nate's plan has gone completely pear shaped that's when Elliot normally comes in to play. But he's [I]competent[/I] at most of the other roles (unlike Sam who would actually slow the rest down at exploration) and works towards the same goals as the others by the same methods (again unlike Sam). Sam on the other hand makes the combined team weaker much of the time. He slows everyone else down on foot. (Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn could pursue the Uruk-hai incredibly fast; not if they have to drag Sam around with them, so options are off the table). In combat he needs to be protected and doesn't contribute other than by kill stealing. And hope isn't something that's a major issue with any of the three characters named. And Kamikaze Midget's attempt to hack him in to the combats by making him kill steal are just going to annoy the other three. Again, not that Samwise Gamgee is a worthless character. Merely that by picking him in a party with just Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli, the player is saying "I want to force themes like hope on your characters, I don't want them to be able to show off their competences in exploration, and I want to sit out of the part of the game where you all come together." The equivalent to adding Sam to the Leverage team wouldn't be adding Elliot, but adding Jayne from Firefly. Again, nothing against Jayne as a character. Or putting Jayne on the Firefly crew. But he doesn't belong with the Leverage crew. Tell it to Loki. If you are a decently creative illusionist, what kills people isn't the illusions. It's the truth they don't see. Combat with an illusionist in an open field should leave the guy the illusionist was fighting swinging at air and the illusionist appearing behind them and plunging a dagger into their kidneys. This applies only to illusionists who are monomaniac enough to rely entirely on their spells. Rather than carry a dagger as well. Of course D&D has historically been [I]terrible[/I] at handling such illusions and shell games. But that isn't a problem with the illusionist so much as the implementation. [/QUOTE]
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