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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 6244525">there is probably a lot of middle ground being missed here and it isn't always easy to communicate your point in these threads, so I supsect a good deal of misunderstanding has crept in (how many of us have responded rapidly to a post without really digesting it or asking for further clarification?).i guess I would say "sucking at combat" is subjective and relative, so we could possibly be meaning different things by it. I don't need the thief to fight like a magic user, but I am genuinely happier with the 2E combag dynamic, where thieves usually get one chance to do a backstab (typically at the start of comat if they set themselves up for it, or possibly during if they are clever) bu generally are not terribly effective (they have things to do, but these are minor contributions). I prefer this to the 3E rogue, which to me felt like it was going more in the commando direction and less in the thief direction. To me 4E seemed to continue that trajectory. Why I lke this, one reason at least, is it really nudges you away from thinking only about combat (even when combat is occuring). The classic image of the thief slinking off to steal the dragon's gold while the other members of the party fight t leaps to mind, or the thief scouting out traps and hiding from enemies to spy on them. It. Is just preference. It may not be what ends up in Next (wotc needs to decide based on what they think people want). I think it is fair though to express what we do like and don't. And i think it is okay to like D&D that has more room for things aside from combat (like exploration, investigation, social interaction and city adventures). I think we are also seeing in this thread and in a couple of others, people have very different attitudes and expectations when it comes to mechanics and what they are supposed to achieve. That is okay. We don't all have to agree on that stuff.</blockquote>

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