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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6245599" data-attributes="member: 6696971">KM, doesn't the following reasoning strike you as a bit of a tautology:The way my group plays 4e noncombat conflict resolution (the Skill Challenge) turns on the primacy of player consideration for the effectiveness of the resource deployed (step on up or Gamist agenda), often (or always) to the exclusion of the context of the fictional positioning surrounding the resource deployed.  Neither the GM nor the table as a whole demands the inverse (fiction first or genre credibility) approach.  Therefore, 4e Skill Challenges are, for all intents and purposes, mostly or wholly indifferent to the fictional considerations.  And that is unsatisfactory.I keep seeing the equivalent of that being put forth.  Pick skill that provides the best % chance for success vs DC.  Press Skill Button.  Win.  As if entrenched ideologues should be as easily moved off their positions toward capitulation by nifty backflips (Acrobatics), benchpressed tables (Athletics) as they are blackmailed by uncovered rumors (Streetwise) or devastatingly poignant allegories (Diplomacy).  Instead of reasoning him into a corner, would Lincoln have been just as likely to move Thaddeus Stevens to moderate his tone when presenting a unified front on the 13th amendment to the United States Constitution if he would have done backflips or 200 pushups?  I mean, of course a conflict resolution system yields aesthetic dysfunction if we push it in that direction.</blockquote>

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