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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1035369" data-attributes="member: 3146">I'd be curious to see how these were set up and what equipment and tactics the barbarian and the fighter used.For instance, I'd take a fighter with spring attack, power attack, expertise, combat reflexes, weapon specialization and a glaive over a barbarian any day. That combination is just set up for one on one confrontations. (It's not bad at crowd control either).Also, starting at mid levels, the warrior with the sunder feat has a large advantage unless the opponent is using a metal-hafted weapon. Disarm is less advantageous since the opponent can pick the weapon up afterward but still might be a good tactic.On the other hand, take a mounted combat specialized fighter and place him against the barbarian on foot and he should expect to lose.For reference however:Ftr 5: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 13:HP: 44; AC 25 (+2 fullplate, +1 tower shield); Atk +8 (1d8+5 +1 warhammer); BAB +5; Grapple +8Feats: Weapon Focus: warhammer, weapon specialization: warhammer,  expertise, power attack, cleave, sunder.Bbn 5: Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, int 10HP: 50 (60 raging); AC 19 (+1 chain shirt, +1 ring protection, +1 amulet natural armor); Atk +9 (2d6+5 +1 greatsword) or +11 (2d6+8 +1 greatsword while raging)Feats: Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Power Attack, CleaveThe barbarian rages on round 1Now, let's speculate that the fighter uses expertise to push his AC to 30 while dropping his attack bonus to +3The fighter still hits the barbarian on a roll of 14 ; the barbarian needs a 19 to hit the fighter.The fighter deals an average of 10.5 damage per blow and hits 35% of the time for 3.675 damage per round. He has a 5% chance of threatening a crit and a .0175% chance of a critical which would deal an additional 21 points of damage; with that added in, he'll deal an average of 4.04 points of damage per round.The barbarian, on the other hand, deals an average of 15 points of damage per blow and hits 10% of the time for an average of 1.5 points of damage per round. He has a 10% chance of threatening a crit and a .01% chance of actually scoring a crit which would deal an additional 15 points of damage; with  that added in, he'll deal an average of 1.65 points of damage per round.After 7 rounds, the barbarian's rage will expire. The fighter will have 32 hp left. The barbarian will have 21 hp left. This round, the barbarian's AC will go back up to 18 but his attack will drop to +8 for 2d6+4 damage. The fighter can afford to bring his expertise down to 3 points leaving his AC at 28 and his attack bonus at +5. I don't think there's any doubt how the rest of the battle would go.Now, technically the point value of the two characters' statistics is equivalent but it's more than likely that the barbarian would have more of a strength advantage than that shows--perhaps by taking half-orc as a race or perhaps by simply dumping int and/or charisma.If the barbarian is given an 18 or 19 strength, his raging attack will be at +12 for 2d6+10 or 17 points of damage. In that case, he'll deal 2.55 damage/round--2.805/round with crits included. In this case the fighter will only have 22 hit points left when the barbarian's rage expires but after that, it's still lights out for the barbarian.If the barbarian is of the "darn the torpedoes" sort, he might have a +1 flaming greatsword and  +1 chain shirt for AC 17 and an attack of +12 for an average of 20.5 points of damage per hit. This scenario will undoubtedly be quicker and bloodier.The fighter deals 5.25 damage/round--5.775/round after crits. The barbarian deals 3.075/round--3.33/round after crits.By the end of the barbarian's rage, the barbarian will have 9 hp left and the fighter will have 20-21 hp. Turning up the offense while negelecting the barbarian's defense turns out to make the battle quicker, bloodier, and more decisive. . . for the fighter.Now, every barbarian and every fighter will be different so this comparison doesn't conclusively prove that fighters will always beat barbarians in battle. (Also the granularity of hit points and criticals denies the average analysis used here--two criticals on either side could easily end the battle). Expertise was also clearly the key to the fighter's victory in the battle. However, I think this shows a fairly reasonable defensively focussed fighter against a fairly typical offensively focussed (is there any other kind?) barbarian. The fighters' decisive victories seem to demonstrate that there's a place for fighters among the Ducks of Death. (If that isn't an unforgivable movie reference).EDIT: I realized that I'd miscalculated the fighter's armor class (I didn't count the dodge feat). So for a really defensively oriented fighter (and a more decisive victory on his part) trade Sunder for Dodge. Note that both characters are around the recommended wealth level for 5th level characters (approx 9kgp).</blockquote>

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