Why can't I kill my pc's. Just once?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Have the PCs encounter their own clones (NPCs monsters with the same abilities, that is, not literal clones). Use their own tactics against them.

Do you go after their weaknesses? High DC Will saves against fighters; the power-attacking greataxe-wielding barbarian against the wizard?

 

[Schmoe]

20 Shadows.

'nuff said.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Paragon Pseudonatural Half-Dragon Kobold Awakened Skeleton Fighter 4s.

What? They're only CR 4 each. Really.

 

[philreed]

Ignore the dice and make up your "rolls." If you _really_ want to waste a PC, then waste the PC. It's your game.

 

[Campbell]

While I won't advocate going overboard on your PCs, here's an idea.

Catch your PCs with their pants down: Attack them while they're sleeping, but make sure the challange is suitable for their debilitated state.

 

[der_kluge]

I'll second Schmoe. 20 shadows will scare the bejeesus out of a party at *any* level.

And I would concur about increasing the number of opponents.

The only other comment I'd make is that I think you're DM'ing my last group. I couldn't touch them, even with a dozen fully prepared and buffed Slaad of the higher order in a pitch black dungeon.

 

[Endur]

Lots of Potential PC deaths coming up in the Inner Fane.

 

[coyote6]

First, like they said -- have more bad guys. Give them more targets to spread the damage amongst. Don't give them just a bunch of mooks, and maybe 1 or 2 tough guys, though; give them several semi-tough guys (things with enough hp/AC to avoid being blown away by an area effect spell or one guy's attacks, & enough attack/damage capability to be at least somewhat threatening if ignored), and the real tough guys. And maybe some mooks, too.

Second, spread out the encounters a little bit. At least enough that their 1 round/level spells expire between fights; preferably enough that the 1 minute/level spells wear off. Have multiple fights in a day, rather than one gigantic battle royale; one big fight lets them blow their spells all at once, and in a fairly efficient manner. If you let them face a bunch EL-equal-to-effective-party-level encounters, and they're blasting away with save-or-die spells at every one, they'll start running out of such spells.

(BTW, what level are the PCs? 13th? 11th? How many PCs are there? Do they have more items than "standard" for their level? Are their stats point buy, or are they rolled up using a method from Unearthed Arcana 1e? )

Finally, note that monsters that advance by "nonassociated class levels" increase CR by +1/2 per level; so a Clr8 fire giant is CR 14. Use this to your advantage.

E.g., use 8 Clr4-6 trolls -- at Clr4, they're CR 7 apiece, & 8 are EL 13; at Clr6, they're CR 8 apiece, and eight are EL 15.

Give them the War domain, preferably of a god with a two-handed weapon (greatsword, greataxe, halberd . . .) as favored weapon (Thrym or Thrym are good). Give them Iron Will. Have them cast resist or protection from energy twice (fire & acid, of course), then maybe bless, bull's strength, bear's endurance, protection from whatever-alignment-the-PCs-are, divine favor, shield of faith, etc. Put them in plate armor. Some (all?) of 'em should have potions of fly.

It's the hit squad from Jotun.

(If they worship Thrym, give 'em a level of barbarian. Bull's strength + rage + troll + two-handed weapon = +15 damage.)

 

[Old One]

<self loathing>
Try combat 2, the next day:

Okay, Young Adult Red Dragon's (Female) hoard has been looted by the PC's and she's very angry, waiting for them to cross the 250 foot long bridges she knows they will.

Buff Dragon with Mage Armor, +4 to AC.
Check.

Spot PC's crossing Bridge with Spot roll of a Natural 20.
Check.

Scare the Bejeezus out of the PC's by casting Enlarge Person on self, upping your size to Gargantuan, and looking like a CR 21 Red Dragon.
Check.

While flying towards PC's, Continue buffing by casting, Shield, Mirror Image and, Shield of Faith. AC is now 38 with 5 mirror Images.
Check.

Fly within 50 feet of the party, and Breathe 10d10 breath weapon, which the entire party fails the saving throw on and do 64 points of damage.
Check.

Frightful Presence causes the party Druid, Rogue, and a Cohort Fighter to become shaken.
Check.

Shrug off the attacks of 3 Spiritual Weapons (From items), 2 as they simply can't hit your armor, 1 as it fizzles against your SR.
Check.

Laugh as the Druid's Summoned Greater Air Elemental (With Augment Summoning) misses badly from first attack.
Check.

Fail Fortitude Save vs. Baleful Polymorph by roll a 3 from the Druid in the first round, get turned into an iguana, and die that round, before the Breath Weapon comes back.
Oops.

I feel so pathetic.

I haven't killed a PC since February 2004. The Cohort dropping to negatives was the first since then.

I need motivation. Why should I keep going on?

Should I just give up and turn into a Monty Haul DM?

</self loathing>

Hmmm...not that I advocate killing PCs, but...

OK, let's take this one by the numbers.

1) The dragon attack - Why the heck is the young adult red still in Baneful Polymorph range at the end of its first turn? With Fly-by attack + dive, it should be no where near 25' + 5'/2 levels range at the end of its move. Also, did the druid target the right image? Did the the spell get through the SR 19? If I am a young adult red, you bet your butt that I am going to have invisibility as a spell.

2) If I am the dragon, here is my game plan:

• I know they are going to cross the bridge, so I find a nice perch to observe from a distance. I also stock the perch with a couple of nice big boulders.
• When I spot the adventuers, I cast Invisibility, go for altitude and open the action with a diving fly-by attack where I either snatch the softest looking PC with a bite attack or bull-rush a couple of PCs off the bridge - preferably ones in nice heavy armor. I take up 15' of space, so I should get at least 2. If I choose the snatch route, my +24 grapple will keep most cleric/druid/mage PCs from escaping. I fly well out range on my next turn, climbing for altitude, breath (no reflex save for snatched creature) and drop them as a free action for lots of falling damage.
• If I have another Invisibility, I cast it and conduct another fly-by with my breath weapon. If not, I scoop up a couple of big rocks and spend a bit of time dive-bombing the PCs, using fly-by attack and staying out of range of most spells. Harrassing, toying, forcing them to expend resources.
• Depending on the terrain and location, I harry them for quite a while...staying out of range while my breath weapon replenishes and swooping in on the front or back of the group. I may try the fly-by, snatch, fly away, breath and drop a couple of more times. If someone live through that routine...they are probably far enough away from their buddies that I can either rinse and repeat or land and finish them off with a full attack routine.
• If I am smart...I never land and give all the PCs a shot at me (or casters a chance to use short range or touch spells on me). Unless I am in a real big hurry...I can spend the next couple of days torturing them...never letting them sleep...regain spells...regain hit points. It will be fun!

As others have noted, using more lower CR critters is a great solution, as is the old "wave" assault method...hit them with successive waves of lower CR enemies, break contact, do it again, wear them down...then smack 'em with the BBEG.

~ Old One

 

[Psychic Warrior]

20 Shadows.

'nuff said.

Very true. i had a group of 1/2 dozen shadows wreak havoc upon my party two weeks ago. Everyone was in single digit strength except the 1/2 Orc and the Cleric. most of them couldn't stand up by themselves and a couple had to use Bull's Strength potions to get off the ground.