melkorspawn
First Post
Wasn't there a 3rd party (mongoose or something) feat that allowed you to try a sunder attack on armor that didn't destroy it, instead caused a tear in the armor that lowered the AC slightly a/o caused a bleeding wound?
why cant you sunder armour?
- Thread starter Child of Hypnos
- Start date
Aaron L
Hero
Want rules for damage to armor?
Ok, heres my shot.
Anytime you take a critical hit, your armor takes damage equal to the max base damage of the weapon plus strength bonuses, with all the standard rules for damaging objects (half damage, hardness, etc.) After your armor takes 1/10 its total hit points of damage, it loses 1/10 rounded up of its AC, until its destroyed.
As for sundering, it would be a touch attack that does standard damage (the coverage of the armor just gives a larger surface to strike), only the damage goes just to the armor and not to the wearer. As above, every 10% damage does 10% AC damage, rounded up.
You would have to use some common sense in ruling on it, IE you wont be able to bludgeon open a suit of leather armor, whereas maces were used exactly to crack open suits of plate like nuts, IIRC.
Acid would be really nasty for this. A Melfs Acid Arrow or Acid Orb could mess up a suit of armor.
But all in all, a suit of armor probably has a lot of hit points (AC times 10 +10 for every point of enhancement, as I recall) and while youre attacking someones armor, theyre going to be smacking you in return, so its probably just a way better idea to try to kill them instead of stripping them naked.
Waddaya think?
Yes I know those are house rules, but the question was asked in this forum
Ok, heres my shot.
Anytime you take a critical hit, your armor takes damage equal to the max base damage of the weapon plus strength bonuses, with all the standard rules for damaging objects (half damage, hardness, etc.) After your armor takes 1/10 its total hit points of damage, it loses 1/10 rounded up of its AC, until its destroyed.
As for sundering, it would be a touch attack that does standard damage (the coverage of the armor just gives a larger surface to strike), only the damage goes just to the armor and not to the wearer. As above, every 10% damage does 10% AC damage, rounded up.
You would have to use some common sense in ruling on it, IE you wont be able to bludgeon open a suit of leather armor, whereas maces were used exactly to crack open suits of plate like nuts, IIRC.
Acid would be really nasty for this. A Melfs Acid Arrow or Acid Orb could mess up a suit of armor.
But all in all, a suit of armor probably has a lot of hit points (AC times 10 +10 for every point of enhancement, as I recall) and while youre attacking someones armor, theyre going to be smacking you in return, so its probably just a way better idea to try to kill them instead of stripping them naked.
Waddaya think?
Yes I know those are house rules, but the question was asked in this forum
)
Felnar
First Post
wow, i came here thinking to post this exact topic, but here it is already (right on top too)
i noticed that in the PHB under "Sunder" there is a chart of common hardness/hitpoints including stats for armors.
anyway, i'm not convinced there's a reason to disallow sundering armor
so i'd like to discuss possible mechanics here http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=157325
i noticed that in the PHB under "Sunder" there is a chart of common hardness/hitpoints including stats for armors.
anyway, i'm not convinced there's a reason to disallow sundering armor
so i'd like to discuss possible mechanics here http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=157325
Li Shenron
Legend
I have a hard time imagining how one could sunder armor without damaging the man inside it... definitely not in combat. In a way it's a bit like trying to hit someone's dress without scratching him, which perhaps should not be impossible in a fantasy novel (Zorro?), but with a metal armor it should take at least a seriously hard effort.
Nac_Mac_Feegle
First Post
I think the problem here is, if you sunder PC armour, your going to seriously piss of your group. Long dungeons etc are bad enough already, without some GM deciding to rip your armour to shreds. Modules and the monster manual, all assume your character to have decent gear for your level, so if your going to sunder armour, you will seriously mess up the level balance, so if you do use it, adjust creatures accordingly.
I know I wouldnt like to be point man in "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" if the GM ripped my AC in half 1 dya into the complex, with the entire adventure still to be done, that would just blow IMO
Feegle Out
I know I wouldnt like to be point man in "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" if the GM ripped my AC in half 1 dya into the complex, with the entire adventure still to be done, that would just blow IMO
Feegle Out
Felnar
First Post
Would it really be any more of a problem than standard sunder rules? Losing a weapon or shield would blow too.Nac_Mac_Feegle said:I think the problem here is, if you sunder PC armour, your going to seriously piss of your group. Long dungeons etc are bad enough already, without some GM deciding to rip your armour to shreds. Modules and the monster manual, all assume your character to have decent gear for your level, so if your going to sunder armour, you will seriously mess up the level balance, so if you do use it, adjust creatures accordingly.
I know I wouldnt like to be point man in "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" if the GM ripped my AC in half 1 dya into the complex, with the entire adventure still to be done, that would just blow IMO
Feegle Out
Nac_Mac_Feegle
First Post
Full plate costs 1500gp base
Most weapons cost about 10-15gp, not including exotics, shield are about 7g max, I would say thats a healthy difference.
Also, your very likely to get a weapon off a mob you can use, even if its a bit pants, but losing your +3 Mithril plate and getting some nice tatty studded leather instead of some mob is going to seriously impact your AC and effectivness as the party fighter (where most sunders are going to end up)
I just think you might really hack of your PC's, unless your very forgiving and tone down the encounters after the sunder, in which case theres little point in sundering, or you give out more drops to make up for it
Put simply, if you remove a fighters AC, he wont carry on because hes almost certainly going to die, so he has to stop and go back for new gear, this could take up to a week depending on who or what is availble in the nearest town, by which time, you have lost the element of surprise in the dungeon
It might be a perfectly reasonable idea on the battlefield, where provisions will be in place for blacksmiths etc, but in a dungeon, its oging to cause way to much down time, and grief,
I have ben in a party where my armour was destroyed, we were very far in, and had very far to go, there was no significant replacement in the loot. I went form a useful party member, to a walking liability, due to the high Attrack bonus of the mobs at that level, having an AC sub 20 at 12+ is a dead party member, plain and simple
Feegle Out
Most weapons cost about 10-15gp, not including exotics, shield are about 7g max, I would say thats a healthy difference.
Also, your very likely to get a weapon off a mob you can use, even if its a bit pants, but losing your +3 Mithril plate and getting some nice tatty studded leather instead of some mob is going to seriously impact your AC and effectivness as the party fighter (where most sunders are going to end up)
I just think you might really hack of your PC's, unless your very forgiving and tone down the encounters after the sunder, in which case theres little point in sundering, or you give out more drops to make up for it
Put simply, if you remove a fighters AC, he wont carry on because hes almost certainly going to die, so he has to stop and go back for new gear, this could take up to a week depending on who or what is availble in the nearest town, by which time, you have lost the element of surprise in the dungeon
It might be a perfectly reasonable idea on the battlefield, where provisions will be in place for blacksmiths etc, but in a dungeon, its oging to cause way to much down time, and grief,
I have ben in a party where my armour was destroyed, we were very far in, and had very far to go, there was no significant replacement in the loot. I went form a useful party member, to a walking liability, due to the high Attrack bonus of the mobs at that level, having an AC sub 20 at 12+ is a dead party member, plain and simple
Feegle Out
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