Why did the era of primordial evil end?

[Cthulhudrew]

What happened that screwed up all that great primordial chaos, anyway?

Capitalism. (In other words, it didn't really go away, just took on a different form. )

Honestly, though, I think one way to look at it might be from a sort of geological time perspective (or, more accurately, a cosmological time perspective). That is, what seems to be an era of relative peace and harmony, or law, is really- from the perspective of the elder evils who view things in millenial terms- just an eyeblink. Much as the era of humanity- which seems long to us- is just a footnote in the annals of the history of the planet, so too is the emergence of law in the cosmos to those of primordial chaos.

 

[Nightfall]

Drew,

You have lots of plushie Cthulthus in your possession, don't you?

 

[Shemeska]

I'd really prefer it if you didn't write campaign-specific stuff as if it were somehow canonical. This is by no means a cut-and-dried issue. It's quite possible that the Elder Evils existed (and gave birth to the aboleths) before the creation of the Outer Planes (or the tanar'ri by the obyriths, *at least*) and possible that it was the other way around. For that matter, it's not at all clear that demons and devils are older than the gods, implying that humanoids may have existed on some worlds before the beginnings of Outer Planar life. This stuff is really specific to the particular campaign.

Campaign specific? If you want me to cite the sources for everything I said, I can. There's room for interpretation on the precise timing of some planar pre-history (and in select cases the potential for in-game source bias), but what I said is there in the source material if we're working with the Great Wheel cosmology.

Yes there are large gaps at times (the early CN, CG, and NG planes are quite deliciously hazy), and when dealing with in-character sources we frequently run into contradictory information, but there's enough to see a general outline, a few core facts that keep popping up so that we can say with a decent degree of accuracy what appeared when, and what is generally older by comparison.

 

[Nightfall]

Shem,

I guess he thought you were siting FR for some reason. *shrugs* Honestly I always believe, unless you say otherwise, you're talking PS which is 100% Great Wheel.

 

[pawsplay]

I think, as the world came into being from the primordial chaos, the chaotic forces simply had the upper hand. The birth of Law as probably the result of chance, and the instant it happened, existence and non-existence became defined, and with both Law and Chaos, entropy and time took their current forms. Eventually, more Lawful forces, or at least less Chaotic ones, beat back the ancient things. Lest the conflict consume all of creation and restore it to the void, balance came into being.

That's just kind of a general, high concept reading I take from reading over the Fiendish codexes and throwing in a little Moorcock.

As for good and evil, I think they always existed; the D&D universe is one of moral realism. As soon as there was suffering, there was good and evil. The forces of supernatural good, evil, and neutrality, however, first martialed under the ancient serpents, who became respectively Asmodeus, an entity masquerading as the deity of the coatls, and something else I am less familiar with, all Lawful. But while Lawful, their relationship to Good and Evil is distinct.

Thus, you have a kind of Christian-influenced divine order of good and evil overlayed onto a Moorcockian primordial Order-Chaos scenario.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Drew,

You have lots of plushie Cthulthus in your possession, don't you?

Only two. A hand puppet and a beach-wear Cthulhu.

 

[lukelightning]

What happened that screwed up all that great primordial chaos, anyway?

Because we modern D&D players don't really jive with the concept of inherent evil. Evil is all relative and evil things are just misunderstood and demon paladins are perfectly ok.

 

[freebfrost]

What is it about the phrase "Iä! Shub-Niggurath!" that gives me a chill?

Your maxed ranks in Knowledge (Cthulhu Mythos)???

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I wouldnt say "Modern" D&D players dont Jive with the concept of Inherent Evil. I for one believe in a clear good and evil and the rare grey area. And ive met more roleplayers who are keen to the idea than those that are not, but maybe thats just me.

Well isnt there a book for Elder Evils coming out this Christmas by WOTC? Im sure it will address some of these questions.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

It never began, Eric Noah stopped it before it could start.