D&D 3E/3.5 Why did they nerf the "sleep" spell in 3.5?

[Falling Icicle]

This is totally OT, but isn't the girl in Cyberzombie's picture the lead singer from Evanescence?

 

[Terath Ninir]

This is totally OT,

Yes. Yes it is.

but isn't the girl in Cyberzombie's picture the lead singer from Evanescence?

Yes. Yes it is. She even has a name, too. Amy Lee.

No, I am not female. Yes, I have a female pic. It is my online persona. No, I have no problem with this. You see, there's this little thing you might have heard of called role-playing, where you pretend to be something you're not...

Sorry. That's not directed at you, Icicle. Just trying to stave off the inevitable emails I get whenever I come back to ENWorld where guys hit on me.

 

[MerricB]

Oh, no, I think we can forget *that* one pretty easily. Let's see -- a 3rd level spell, takes a full round to cast, and maybe takes down two enemies. More likely just one. Or I can take fireball. No contest there! Fireball all the way. Even as a bard, I wouldn't bother with deep slumber. By the time *they* get it, they're 7th level, so it's already past what little prime it had.

I think you are looking at what sleep used to do more than what deep slumber does.

Deep slumber is the spell that takes down the big nasty creature.

As a 5th level Wizard, I can cast deep slumber to take out a Gray Render with 125 hp. My fireball would normally do only 17 damage to it.

Cheers!

 

[beaver1024]

Anyway, for those people who are claiming 3.5E Sleep is "useless", what mass-kill spell are you taking in its place? To me, Color Spray doesn't have the range and it doesn't totally incapacitate your foe like Sleep does.

Which part of Colour Spray doesn't totally incapacitate like Sleep does. Is it the unconsciouness? Is it the blinding and stunning?

Affecting a total of 4 hit dice worth of monsters is extremely limited even for a 1st level spell. In fact it becomes useless beyond 1st character level. Colour Spray and Sleep used to be balanced with each other. Now you'd be silly to take Sleep still, especially if you're a sorcerer. I certainly never seen anyone who plays a sorc/wiz take Sleep ever in 3.5.

 

[MerricB]

Which part of Colour Spray doesn't totally incapacitate like Sleep does. Is it the unconsciouness? Is it the blinding and stunning?

Affecting a total of 4 hit dice worth of monsters is extremely limited even for a 1st level spell. In fact it becomes useless beyond 1st character level. Colour Spray and Sleep used to be balanced with each other. Now you'd be silly to take Sleep still, especially if you're a sorcerer. I certainly never seen anyone who plays a sorc/wiz take Sleep ever in 3.5.

Colour Spray affects a 15' cone.
Sleep has a range of 100' + 10'/level.

Sleep has a big advantage in that area.

Against a 4 HD creature, Colour spray lasts 1d4+1 rounds. Sleep lasts 1 minute/caster level. Sleep still has the advantage.

Colour Spray is 1 action as opposed to 1 round for sleep - Colour Spray has the advantage there.

You might find Colour Spray superior to Sleep on all counts, but I certainly don't. That range is a huge issue. (In a 10' wide corridor, Colour Spray is unusable unless you're in the front rank - a severe drawback).

Cheers!