Why didn't Monks get Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge?

[harpy]

In my ongoing series of questions on "Why did the 3E designers decide to do X?" Now I turn to the Monk and the curious lack of Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

It fits with Rogues and Barbarians, but thematically it also fits with Monk, who'd you think, being the wisdom based classed oriented around "being present in the moment" type of flavor, would be a natural candidate for both of these class features.

Is it that the 3E designers saw all the class features the Monk was getting and thought, "we can't give them those also, it would be unfair for the Rogue and Barbarian!" or perhaps "We need to distinguish between the classes and so to make the Rogue and Barbarian more special, we'll withhold it from the Monk."

It's been a head scratcher for me for quite some time, and now after a decade it's quite clear that the Monk is a bit behind a lot of the other classes, and so now it seems even more odd that it was left off their class sheet.

 

[Crothian]

Not odd at all. The Monk has plenty of abilities and I never saw a need for them to have Uncanny Dodge.

 

[Nifft]

Monks aren't supposed to be in melee with a bunch of dudes. Monks are supposed to be behind the front line, neutralizing the enemy spellcaster.

Cheers, -- N

 

[harpy]

Monks aren't supposed to be in melee with a bunch of dudes. Monks are supposed to be behind the front line, neutralizing the enemy spellcaster.

True, but the primary way in which Uncanny Dodge gets used is as a defense in the surprise round, so it isn't so much an ability about wading into battle, but instead a defensive reaction to danger, which one would expect a squishy martial character to have.

For Improved Uncanny Dodge the primary element that will be used is that you can't get flanked. Now I can't think of a more iconic image of someone unable to be flanked than the zillions of scenes in martial arts movies where the hero is surrounded by guys and yet is able to handle all of them.

One of the Monk's major gimmicks is the stack of defensive elements baked into the class, and so it just really seems odd that these elements which are completely defensive and play into agile reflexes was somehow omitted by the 3E designers.

 

[Gadget]

I think you have a solid argument, but the main reason Monks do not have uncanny dodge is to make the Rogues more unique. Barbarians may have gotten uncanny dodge, but they did not get evasion. Monks got evasion but did not get uncanny dodge. I don't think it would be unbalancing for monks to have uncanny dodge (it certainly fits the archetype), but it may be perceived as stealing too much of the Rogue's pie. Mmmmm....pie...

 

[Mark Chance]

Now I can't think of a more iconic image of someone unable to be flanked than the zillions of scenes in martial arts movies where the hero is surrounded by guys and yet is able to handle all of them.

That's because the guys attack the hero one at a time.

The monk's class bonus to AC applies even when the monk is flat-footed. It's sort of like uncanny dodge.

 

[pawsplay]

Because they didn't think about it or couldn't come up with a way to balance it, I guess. I mean, as it is, their AC bonus is like "half uncanny dodge." Surely not being flanked is more of a monk thing than a rogue one.

 

[Kerrick]

All they had to do was make the special AC bonus a dodge bonus (which stacks with everything, including other dodge bonuses), then give them UD. There - fixed.

 

[Aus_Snow]

It is, frankly, preposterous that Fighters don't get UD and IUD as well. Oh, and Rangers too. Hell, Paladins also. Why not.*

Oh, and why? They're all full-time warriors, and therefore must be ever vigilant. Or die. Simple as that.

Those who are not full-time warriors, however, I suppose might be more likely to be more susceptible to ambushes or what have you.

One could, of course, make it a feat, as it is in both True20 and M&M (among others,) IIRC. Personally, I feel that BAB +3 or so would be a neat prereq for UD. YMMV, etc.


* But yes, Monks too.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

All they had to do was make the special AC bonus a dodge bonus (which stacks with everything, including other dodge bonuses), then give them UD. There - fixed.

Umm...no it's not. Then the monk still loses his monk AC in a grapple, while climbing, if feinted, etc...

Really, the fact that their class AC is portrayed as a sixth sense superior to regular dodging and not giving them another unique class feature is the best way of handling it, IMO.

One could, of course, make it a feat, as it is in both True20 and M&M (among others,) IIRC. Personally, I feel that BAB +3 or so would be a neat prereq for UD. YMMV, etc.

So then anyone with a full BAB can get it earlier than one of the few classes that got it all along?

I don't think it should be a feat, it should be rare and limited ot certain classes. It's rather powerful, even better than the "improved" version aquired later on, since it protects from more instances of AC loss and unlike the IUD, has absolutely no means of "overcoming" it (IUD fails against someone else with IUD and 4 more levels in that class than you).