Why didn't Monks get Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge?

Its because 1st Edition Barbarians got the Back Protection percentile skill and Thief-Acrobats got the evasion percentile skill. When S&P and Dark Sun started allowing beginning thieves to choose the skills they wanted from a list a lot of people houseruled in Back Protection for thieves including a Scout variant in Dragon Magazine.
 

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Yes.

So Barbarians will have to wait *one more* level? Oh noes! :lol:

I meant that then those classes would get it earlier than the rogue. How about we make Diamond Soul a feat that most people could easily obtain by level 9, cause...:):):):) the monk.

(I know context can be difficult over the internet, so let me clarify: I absolutely do not actually think that is in any way, shape or form a good idea)
 

I meant that then those classes would get it earlier than the rogue. How about we make Diamond Soul a feat that most people could easily obtain by level 9, cause...:):):):) the monk.

(I know context can be difficult over the internet, so let me clarify: I absolutely do not actually think that is in any way, shape or form a good idea)
Oh wow, thanks! I hadn't realised!!! :D

Or, to 'clarify': I totally got that the first time 'round. Just sayin'. ;)

And yeah, the feat idea might necessitate a few other tweaks to the system. But what changes don't, in general? Yep. :)
 

I meant that then those classes would get it earlier than the rogue. How about we make Diamond Soul a feat that most people could easily obtain by level 9, cause...:):):):) the monk.

(I know context can be difficult over the internet, so let me clarify: I absolutely do not actually think that is in any way, shape or form a good idea)

Yeah, because you know that character classes are the state of the art in roleplaying games. How ever would anyone play an RPG without character classes? Xp
 


Umm...no it's not. Then the monk still loses his monk AC in a grapple, while climbing, if feinted, etc...
That's what IUD is for. It's better, IMO, than creating a mechanic completely unique to one class. It would make sense if the class were, say, centered around psychic insights and abilities, but the monk is a martial artist.

I don't think it should be a feat, it should be rare and limited ot certain classes. It's rather powerful, even better than the "improved" version aquired later on, since it protects from more instances of AC loss and unlike the IUD, has absolutely no means of "overcoming" it (IUD fails against someone else with IUD and 4 more levels in that class than you).
Not a feat, no, but fighters (at the least) should get it - UD is the ability to see what's going on around you and react with a split second's notice. Currently, as has been pointed out to me, fighters fail against invisible opponents for precisely that reason. Paladins? Eh... I don't think so, because they rely on their holy power. Rangers? Definitely. A hunter/scout is always alert and vigilant (otherwise he's not a very good hunter/scout). Given that rogues get all kinds of class abilities that fighters and rangers don't, you're not really screwing them by giving a couple other classes UD/IUD - you're just making those other classes more effective at what they do.
 

That's what IUD is for. It's better, IMO, than creating a mechanic completely unique to one class. It would make sense if the class were, say, centered around psychic insights and abilities, but the monk is a martial artist.

It's not unique to that class. Other AC bonuses also apply to most any situation you can think of: size, insight, luck, deflection... And is it really that hard to implement or understand a bonus that (almost) always works? Granted, monks lose it while sleeping, but I never understood that, or liked that sleeping is grouped with helpless in general. Ever see when Xena (tv show) would catch a blade in her sleep? When I see a monk's "preternatural awareness," that's the first mental image I always get.


Also, that's NOT what IUD is for. IUD is only flanking. Not grappling, not climbing, not anything more than flanking.

Not a feat, no, but fighters (at the least) should get it - UD is the ability to see what's going on around you and react with a split second's notice. Currently, as has been pointed out to me, fighters fail against invisible opponents for precisely that reason. Paladins? Eh... I don't think so, because they rely on their holy power. Rangers? Definitely. A hunter/scout is always alert and vigilant (otherwise he's not a very good hunter/scout). Given that rogues get all kinds of class abilities that fighters and rangers don't, you're not really screwing them by giving a couple other classes UD/IUD - you're just making those other classes more effective at what they do.

1) It's not merely the fact you're giving away key class features that hurts the rogue. You're also making defenses against his only real method of killing things much easier to obtain, when it's already a long list of opponents and items that grant you sneak attack immunity. If a Rogue can't catch you flatfooted, it's much harder for him to fight you, astronomically harder if he's not a melee rogue. I've played a lot of Rogues, aside from enemies with natural immunities, the toughest foes for me to contribute in combat against are other rogues and similar. It's just so hard to sneak attack them!

2) I'm really sick of the whole "Fighters are the weakest class," "Fighters should be good at fighting!" (fighting ambiguously used to reference any little possible incidence that could happen in a D&D fight), and other such arguments. Rogues are not much better than FIghters at higher levels, and absolutely weaker at earlier levels. And their main avenue of superiorit, Use Magic Device as a class skill, is easy enough to get ranks in as a Fighter, especially with splat books. To plunder from the Rogue to give to the Fighter is just plain distasteful, and especially when it's unnecessary -- like it or not, the Fighter is designed to wear heavy armor. UD isn't much use to an "optimal" Fighter anyway, at least for AC. As a form of immunity to sneak attacks, a form of attack that if you follow the suggested population distributions of PC classes the DMG suggests represents a miniscule number of potential attacks...*sigh* If you want a more agile, reflexive, light armored fighter...play something else. Like a Rogue. :) Or a Swashbuckler. Who also coincidentally don't get UD. In my Fighter variants, I did give one of them the option to get UD and IUD. But he's also a hybrid rogue/fighter who relies very heavily on dex and dodge bonuses to AC, so it made more sense.
 

All I can guess is that the monk is not meant to scout out ahead of the party.

Classes unfit for scouting per the requirement they need UD in order to function:

Bard
Ranger
Swordsage
Ninja (on the other hand, the class isn't much fit for anything)
Scout (!!!) -- well, they lack IUD, so they're ok at scouting, just not true SCOUTS.
Any spellcaster, barring PrC's to get UD (all those divination spells? Pfft!)

Classes that are totally awesome at that recon stuff:

Barbarian
Warblade
 

Ultimately, in writing the martial artist for A Fistful of Denarii, I looked at this issue and decided to give them Uncanny Dodge.
 

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