D&D 5E Why do cities in Faerun have fortified walls?

[Demetrios1453]

There are a few things to remember too about the whole static defenses thing. Those static, walled cities, such as in the Sword Coast are old. As in really old. But, even drop a zero and make them a few centuries old instead of a few thousand and it really doesn't matter. When you have that much time, and you have permanent magic, it gets layered on greater and greater.

Thousands of years old? Waterdeep as a human settlement only goes back to 882 DR, and didn't really become more than a warlord's wooden-walled hold until 936 DR, when it began to be known by its current name (and even then it was a century or so before it became a real city). Baldur's Gate is similarly aged; the first dated reference we have to it is 931 DR (although its founding story is common knowledge in the Realms, the actual events are undated, but probably not to much earlier than this.). The current year in the setting is c.1492 DR. The Sword Coast has been overrun by orc and human hordes dozens of times over the centuries, so there really aren't any really truly ancient surviving settlements (outside your typical elf and dwarf hidden settlements). If you want cities that have lasted thousands of years, go south to the Lands of Intrigue or east to the Sea of Fallen Stars...

(And, even though I answered similarly up thread, this is why they have walls. When history shows that all previous attempts at civilization in the area have been utterly wiped out by rampaging hordes, you kind of want walls up there to protect you from them. And they have indeed helped drive off invading hordes in the past few centuries).

 

[Hussar]

I did say that they were a few centuries old. But, your point is well made.

On the flip side though, that brings up other issues. If Waterdeep is only about 500 years old, then how did it get so big so fast? Of course, that also depends on which edition we want to talk about. The population estimates of Waterdeep have been all over the place. Talk about dropping a zero.

 

[S'mon]

You could perhaps build castles with more tactical or operational value, but nothing beats the strategic value of protecting yourself from leadership decapitation.

I remember 'scry & fry' being a big issue when running 3e D&D, but not in 4e or 5e D&D. Accurate long range teleport and buff spells as a huge force multiplier were the major factors. 5e has no teleport-without-error and I only see teleport used with permanent circle or associated object.

 

[S'mon]

Thousands of years old? Waterdeep as a human settlement only goes back to 882 DR, and didn't really become more than a warlord's wooden-walled hold until 936 DR, when it began to be known by its current name (and even then it was a century or so before it became a real city). Baldur's Gate is similarly aged; the first dated reference we have to it is 931 DR (although its founding story is common knowledge in the Realms, the actual events are undated, but probably not to much earlier than this.). The current year in the setting is c.1492 DR. The Sword Coast has been overrun by orc and human hordes dozens of times over the centuries, so there really aren't any really truly ancient surviving settlements (outside your typical elf and dwarf hidden settlements). If you want cities that have lasted thousands of years, go south to the Lands of Intrigue or east to the Sea of Fallen Stars...

(And, even though I answered similarly up thread, this is why they have walls. When history shows that all previous attempts at civilization in the area have been utterly wiped out by rampaging hordes, you kind of want walls up there to protect you from them. And they have indeed helped drive off invading hordes in the past few centuries).

Yes. City walls are particularly useful in the typical FR context of mostly independent city states frequently threatened by rampaging humanoid hordes with relatively little magic. Not that they are useless in the less common context of inter-state warfare, either. At most levels wizards behind firing slits are a lot better than wizards out in the open, especially in 5e where you only get one Concentration spell each.

Personally my suspension of disbelief is much more harmed by the existence of unwalled towns vulnerable to kobolds(!) - Greenest

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

Why do cities have walls? Because in Faerun, it is actually much cheaper to build these walls than in Ye Olde Real Medieval Ages. So even if they don't really offer much protection, it's a quick addition to the town.

Firstly you have creatures that are way stronger than any normal human being in real. Since ogres are (no longer) always evil, I would expect them to be employed in construction a lot. (Not sure giants would lower themselves to work for humanoids). If you have employees that can regularly lift 100 kg without needing a crane, that helps a lot.

And then there is magic:
Mold Earth is just insane. It's a cantrip, so a single level 1 druid/sorcerer/wizard can do the work of hundreds of diggers for the foundation.
Shape water can also be super helpful for works below the groundwater level, or if you are building near water (freeze some of it to get a stable platform to work on!).

My assumption is always that level 1 spells are quite common and cheap - level 1 casters don't charge insane fees - So, using only level 1 spells, you dramatically change the ways walls are built.
Wanna cart 500 lbs of rocks to the top of your citadel? Cast a floating sphere (if you don't have an ogre).
Trouble digging a hole for the foundations? Cast Earth Tremor and just scoop it up. (Maybe even use Mold Earth?)
Who needs personal protection equipment when you have healers around?

I would expect that the higher level spells are not available because the casters that can do those would ask prices that are not a good business case for the construction companies. (Plant growth to get more lumber quickly might be an exception since it's a 1x casting, with an effect for a year, Stone Shape to shape particularly difficult parts of a rock could also be worth its money in some cases).

 

[glass]

I doubt that normal ballistas can shoot as high as a dragon can fly.

True, but dragons flying over the city at maximum altitude are unlikely to be a problem.

If they want to attack the city they are going to have to get a lot lower. The range of the balista is going to be longer then the range of their breath weapon, let alone their claws and teeth (they might have some spells that outrange the balistae, but IIRC 5e toned down spell ranges considerably compared with 3.5).

I've forgotten the name but the northern empire that was stupidly magically powerful before the desert swallowed it,

Did you mean Netheril? They were nothern and magically powerful, and centred around what is now Anauroch, but it was not so much "the desert swallowed them" as "they fell out of the sky".

Or was there another magically-powerful northern empire that I am forgetting?

_
glass.

 

[Ixal]

True, but dragons flying over the city at maximum altitude are unlikely to be a problem.

If they want to attack the city they are going to have to get a lot lower. The range of the balista is going to be longer then the range of their breath weapon, let alone their claws and teeth (they might have some spells that outrange the balistae, but IIRC 5e toned down spell ranges considerably compared with 3.5).


Did you mean Netheril? They were nothern and magically powerful, and centred around what is now Anauroch, but it was not so much "the desert swallowed them" as "they fell out of the sky".

Or was there another magically-powerful northern empire that I am forgetting?

_
glass.

Why would a dragon ever use their claws and breath weapon against a city? Especially fire breathing dragons have other options like droping burning trees or heated, nearly melting rocks on the city and let the fire spread.

 

[Oofta]

For practically every invention or tactic made for war there have always been a countermeasures developed. Sometimes those countermeasures are not 100% effective, like anti-missile defenses, but don't discount ingenuity in an arms race. Trench warfare grinding the war to a halt? Invent the tank!

Things like teleportation are countered by spells such as forbiddance or hallow. That dragon? Maybe ballistae that aren't designed to directly damage but instead hinder flight. Maybe the city has a griffon rider corps or some variation of a trebuchet that works similar to flak cannons from WWII. A single Wall of Force is going to ruin a dragon's day if cast at the correct location.

In my home campaign, teleportation can be dangerous because there are spells that will redirect you if you aren't whitelisted. Since these spells can last forever and are sometimes lost to the mist of time you never have any guarantee of where you will end up even if you have an item from the target location. Teleportation circles are generally safe, but people are very protective of their sigil sequence.

Casting fireball at enemy troops is also effective, but if there are thousands of people in the army, most wizards are only going to be able to take out a tiny percentage per day. In addition if you have people that can fireball you would likely have special sniper-type troops (potentially including casters) scattered amongst the troops just waiting for the defending wizard to expose their location.

So don't discount mundane defenses. They're just one part of a multi-layered defensive system.

 

[Jer]

Stone walls are to protect you from the owlbears and bullettes wandering the wilderness.

You think your wooden palisades are going to hold up if an owlbear decides they want in? You really want those stone walls just to be sure.

 

[Laurefindel]

Late to the party, but here's my 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

Cities in FR (or any other medieval fantasy setting) have walls because...

• Walled cities invoke medieval themes. In other words, they look cool and are immersive. This should not be dismissed.
• Walls are impressive. Tall, fancy walls are a big sign saying "prosperous city" or "powerful lord/lady" at first sight (and one that the enemies can see too, unlike lavish palaces and the like).
• Walls remain an efficient barrier against a good number of opponents; not all fly or burrow. If there are walls, we can assume there are enough of those to be worth the trouble.
• We can imagine that city/castle walls are designed to repel invaders from within and without the city, and particular attention given to gatehouses and drawbridges to avoid or mitigate flying/burrowing Trojan Horse situations.
• If the level of magic/fantasy allows for that many flying/burrowing creatures, the same level of fantasy/magic allows for cheaper, quicker, easier wall construction.
• By principle of sympathy, walls offer a clear border and anchor for magical protections, and one that cannot be easily disrupted at that (unlike a circle of salt or sparse standing stones).
• As said before, they are not (or should not) be the sole feature of a city/castle's defenses, but they act as the first layer.