Why do elves suck?

[WonderRat]

Pretty simple - doesn't even need a mechanical fix.


Take 'em back to their more fey roots.


More wild and chaotic. Fickle, passionate, and perpetually living in the now. The old school kind of elves that would try to chase down a deer unarmed, get drunk off their ass under the stars and screw on a whim. Ones that don't care if Everything Was Better Before, because frankly, they can hardly remember it anyway.

Playing them like that could be fun.

Kinda odd I am annoyed by both ends of the spectrum. Either they are simply humans with pointy ears or just act goofy. Not as much not a very alien culture, but more like some sorta pseudo-Celtic stereotypes. I suppose overall I don't think elves suck, I just find their stereotype even more annoying then the cookie cutter copies of the other races.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I don't like elves because of Tolkien. He did it, so everyone does it; and either they're just like his, only less well-conceived . . . or they're a lot more interesting than his, but would be even better if they weren't elves at all.

Everything else - stupid MMO players, drooling fanboys, things made by elves rawking hardcore . . . it all comes from Tolkien and his imitators with their Ubermenschen.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I don't like elves because of Tolkien. He did it, so everyone does it; and either they're just like his, only less well-conceived . . . or they're a lot more interesting than his, but would be even better if they weren't elves at all.

Everything else - stupid MMO players, drooling fanboys, things made by elves rawking hardcore . . . it all comes from Tolkien and his imitators with their Ubermenschen.

Its one thing to say that you don't like immature players who are fans of elves.

Its another thing to say that this is Tolkien's fault. I think that is ignorent. He made dwarves what they are today too, he also made halfings (now they are all copies of Bilbo only more attractive)... what does that say about them? he dident just set the foreground for d&d, also set the background. Stupid magic rings and old temples!!!!! stupid demons coming from forgotten cities!!!! Stupid ancient evil!!!! stupid Wizard with swords!!!!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Perhaps I have been saved. I don't play mmorpg's so I dont know these raving fan boys. Nore do I know very many gamers so I don't know any elven fan boys personally. in fact i have never EVER seen or met one online or otherwise. I have however met lots of people that think dwarves or halflings are somehow better then sliced bread though. I don't hold it against them.

 

[WonderRat]

Perhaps I have been saved. I don't play mmorpg's so I dont know these raving fan boys. Nore do I know very many gamers so I don't know any elven fan boys personally. in fact i have never EVER seen or met one online or otherwise. I have however met lots of people that think dwarves or halflings are somehow better then sliced bread though. I don't hold it against them.

I haven't met many halfling fanboys, but I have met plenty of dwarf fanboys. I can't say I like the dwarf stereotype much either. And where is the love for gnomes? Honestly I think the only elf fanboys I have seen online are really more like otherkin then simply folks who really love elves.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Its one thing to say that you don't like immature players who are fans of elves.

Its another thing to say that this is Tolkien's fault. I think that is ignorent. He made dwarves what they are today too, he also made halfings (now they are all copies of Bilbo only more attractive)... what does that say about them? he dident just set the foreground for d&d, also set the background. Stupid magic rings and old temples!!!!! stupid demons coming from forgotten cities!!!! Stupid ancient evil!!!! stupid Wizard with swords!!!!

Just a nitpick, but Gary Gygax has publicly stated more than once that Robert E. Howard, Jack Vance, and Fritz Leiber were much bigger influences on the creation of D&D than Tolkien was.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

In another version of this same conversation, the question came up: how do you fix elves?

I mean, I think the answer varies depending on what you think the most glaring problem with them is, but let's have some ideas for how to make the elves something other than annoying pretty people with a few warmed over bland Tolkien themes grafted on from time to time.

Play games set in Eberron.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Its one thing to say that you don't like immature players who are fans of elves.

Its another thing to say that this is Tolkien's fault. I think that is ignorent. He made dwarves what they are today too, he also made halfings (now they are all copies of Bilbo only more attractive)... what does that say about them? he dident just set the foreground for d&d, also set the background. Stupid magic rings and old temples!!!!! stupid demons coming from forgotten cities!!!! Stupid ancient evil!!!! stupid Wizard with swords!!!!

Excuse me, but that's a wagonload of crap.

Okay, first you assume that I like dwarves and halflings. I don't. Dwarves are less boring than elves, but hobbity halflings are actually worse.

Second, everything you mention after that ignores the fact that Gary Freaking Gygax didn't take his inspirations from Tolkien - he took them from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, Robert E. Howard, all of whom were writing sword-and-sorcery tales before Tolkien started up the high fantasy genre - and I personally think D&D is better with more Weird Tales and less The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

well i mean not to offend, but i didn't imply you were a fan of dwarves and halfings. I'm saying I have known people to be fans of dwarves and halfings.

Most of my message was not meant to imply anything about you and if thats how it came across, then i'm sorry.

just becuse Gary Freaking Gygax says what influence him, this does not mean it was so.

halfings at the time of od&d were called Hobbits. That is purely from lotr. Orc is also strait out of lotr. G&G had a law suit hanging over his head. do you think it was in his best interest to say d&d was based off lord of the rings? hobbits were changed to halfings.

Does anyone have a good case as to how d&d isn't like lord of the rings and what books influenced it more? I don't put much faith into what G&G says. I look at the final product, and just its names is very telling.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Perhaps I have been saved. I don't play mmorpg's so I dont know these raving fan boys.

I don't do, either. Those I know who do let me shy away from it. I won't say that all MMORPG players are like this, but it seems that the worst ones live around here.

Nore do I know very many gamers so I don't know any elven fan boys personally. in fact i have never EVER seen or met one online or otherwise.

I don't know too many, but it is three gaming groups worth of people who play(ed) D&D, all in all 20 or more people I'd say. There were one or two people who tended to play somewhat annoying elves, but, seriously, they tended to play somewhat annoying anything.

I have however met lots of people that think dwarves or halflings are somehow better then sliced bread though. I don't hold it against them.

I did have my share of those raving dwarf fanboys. Abusing the ridiculously overpowered 3e stats, abusing the racial background to play antisocial characters and get on everyone's nerves, and so on.

But you don't see me going around saying everyone who likes dwarves is a raving dwarf fanboy or anything.