D&D 5E (2014) Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[Micah Sweet]

I mean

5e supports

• High power Beer and Pretzel Dungeoneering
• High power Combat as War, Deadly Grinders

Not

• High power Semi serious Dungeoneering
• High power Narrative Set Pieces
• High power Urban Adventure
• High power Wilderness Treks
• Involved Political Intrigue and Relationship Building
• Mysterious Investigation of growing high powered threats
• Tactical Wargaming with PCs as Elites
• Strategic Domain play
• Tactical Domain play
• High powered Heist and AntiHeist play
• Research and gathering of parts for creating gear for one of the above

You need additional material or other systems to run those

How does any level of 5e support Combat as War? The game seems largely built for Combat as Sport.

 

[AlViking]

I mean

5e supports

• High power Beer and Pretzel Dungeoneering
• High power Combat as War, Deadly Grinders

Not

• High power Semi serious Dungeoneering
• High power Narrative Set Pieces
• High power Urban Adventure
• High power Wilderness Treks
• Involved Political Intrigue and Relationship Building
• Mysterious Investigation of growing high powered threats
• Tactical Wargaming with PCs as Elites
• Strategic Domain play
• Tactical Domain play
• High powered Heist and AntiHeist play
• Research and gathering of parts for creating gear for one of the above

You need additional material or other systems to run those

Not having specific hard coded rules that give you detailed systems does not mean lack of support. I've done or played in many of the campaign styles that yo use say it does not support although what you deem necessary for support is probably far different from mine. Meanwhile I've run and played in a few high level games now and never felt like they were dungeoneering or grinders.

 

[Minigiant]

Not having specific hard coded rules that give you detailed systems does not mean lack of support. I've done or played in many of the campaign styles that yo use say it does not support although what you deem necessary for support is probably far different from mine. Meanwhile I've run and played in a few high level games now and never felt like they were dungeoneering or grinders.

But actively pushing one style means you have to push active additional rules to support the other styles you've locked out, overrode, or weakened to allow them.

 

[Minigiant]

How does any level of 5e support Combat as War? The game seems largely built for Combat as Sport.

The OP magic spells with out of encounters capabilities

 

[Zardnaar]

But actively pushing one style means you have to push active additional rules to support the other styles you've locked out, overrode, or weakened to allow them.

They can't accommodate every playstyle and some are diametrically opposed.

Eg simple vs complex. Somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot. Go to far one way or another.....

 

[AlViking]

But actively pushing one style means you have to push active additional rules to support the other styles you've locked out, overrode, or weakened to allow them.

I've run and played in games that include several of the styles you say are not supported and typically the style of play had a tendency to vary based on immediate concerns. No campaign I've ever played exclusively embraces one style and certainly not the two that you claim are the only ones supported. What kind of support is required or desired is going to vary based on what you want out of the game.

 

[AlViking]

They can't accommodate every playstyle and dsome are diametrically opposed.

Eg simple vs complex. Somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot. Go to far one way or another.....

They can support a fair bit of variety but I think it's pointless to say that it doesn't do absolutely everything as if it were a flaw in game design. It's more flexible than a lot of other systems and less flexible than others. Whether it works for any group is dependent on what the group wants out of the game.

 

[Minigiant]

They can't accommodate every playstyle and some are diametrically opposed.

Eg simple vs complex. Somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot. Go to far one way or another.....

I'm not saying they should accommodate every playstyle.

If you just look at the design and implementation of some of the high level spells that just placed in the game and then was stuck with because of backwards compatibility... a whole lot of types of games are locked out unless you add additional elements to open those style.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not saying they should accommodate every playstyle.

If you just look at the design and implementation of some of the high level spells that just placed in the game and then was stuck with because of backwards compatibility... a whole lot of types of games are locked out unless you add additional elements to open those style.

Might need to be more specific. What exactly are you referring to?

 

[bloodtide]

Anyone can do whatever they want at their table - that seems pretty obvious - but D&D in which it is taken that (say) 5th level PCs are on a par with Dukes of Hell is (in my view) drifting a long way away from the game that WotC publishes and that TSR published.

I guess this matters if you feel forced to have a game exactly like is published.

How does any level of 5e support Combat as War? The game seems largely built for Combat as Sport.

Or more Combat as Marvelous Entertainment

Sure... but isn't the point of this thread asking why more people don't play high-level games, not why people are not choosing to play the game WotC/TSR published in the manner they did? To which one of the answers is that we just don't need to play high-level games. There is nothing high-level games have that can't also be had with lower-level games via the use of house-ruling and adjustment (regardless of what or how WotC publishes their material.)

Well, what about only high level games can have high level epic, or beyond epic stories and plots?

So if it would normally take a table 2 years to reach high-level and then use the high-level material that WotC publishes for it... or tables can use that material a year-and-a-half earlier by just de-leveling it... this could explain why tables aren't bothering to go for or ever reach high-level games.

I think most would just super power their characters....or simply do the MOST important part: add homebrew rules for things like docile foes, no character death and a general easy game play.