D&D 5E Why do your sidekicks hit better than the PC's??

No. I quted correctly. But I was trying to explain what he seems to do ;)
Oh, okay, this is why I use the also-correct-English "one" rather than "you" in that sort of situation - i.e. "One needs to build a strawman correctly before burning it down.", which makes it clear it's an impersonal statement. Not saying you should, just noting. I feel "one" is a bit underused generally in English.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

GreyLord

Legend
Tasha's says only creatures up to CR 1/2 are eligible. Obviously you can do whatever you want for your own table, but at that point you're not using it as intended. If you were to use it with higher CR creatures, at a minimum, I would apply a level adjustment.

Yes...yes it does...FOR NPCs....

However, does it say that same thing for PCs?

You COULD read it that way, but then it is contradicting the rules that came before it that allow them to play certain "monster" races that have only been rated at a CR higher than 1/2 (for example, Duergar) if taken in that literal interpretation.

From what I've read, it doesn't say much at all about PC's who take these Sidekick classes as PC classes at all. IN fact, it's only about a few lines, which make the rules EXTREMELY vague regarding them.

This could allow a DM to be extra restrictive (in which case, as a player I'd revolt when they let one player take a race but disallow it to another against the explicit rules...)

Or, a more liberal reading which would allow a LOT of latitude to players.

Of course, regardless of that, still have NOT read a convincing argument in this thread of why Sidekicks get a +2 better to hit than other PC classes.

The only somewhat arguments are that PC's get some things a level earlier (well...the Fighters at least...some of the other martial archetypes are still not justified in comparison by a long mile) which could be an answer...but not really all THAT weakening to the sidekicks unless you STOP your campaign on the earlier level...

OR...Feats.

Now, with Feats, those are optional. They are used to REPLACE as an option, the ASI's each class gets. If the classes get to the option to replace ASI's by choosing a feat, by that same rule, a PC playing a sidekick class should as well...which to me renders that idea that Feats give other PC classes an upperhand a moot point.

I don't see a single rule that says that if a Player takes a sidekick as a class they are then excluded from the other optional rules that every other Player can use.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
BECAUSE THEY ARE SIDEKICKS. They wear you cast off costumes. Will never get their own show. They have to drag you drunk ass home on weekends not adventuring. They always getting captured. They never getting the true kisses from the hot villain. No Retirement plan except for a crowbar. You give them silly name.
THEY DON'T GET RESPECTED !
Let them have than unnamed +2 bonus. Or are you going to steal that idea from them too.
From SALE
Sidekicks Are Loved Everytime.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Yes...yes it does...FOR NPCs....

However, does it say that same thing for PCs?

You COULD read it that way, but then it is contradicting the rules that came before it that allow them to play certain "monster" races that have only been rated at a CR higher than 1/2 (for example, Duergar) if taken in that literal interpretation.

From what I've read, it doesn't say much at all about PC's who take these Sidekick classes as PC classes at all. IN fact, it's only about a few lines, which make the rules EXTREMELY vague regarding them.

This could allow a DM to be extra restrictive (in which case, as a player I'd revolt when they let one player take a race but disallow it to another against the explicit rules...)

Or, a more liberal reading which would allow a LOT of latitude to players.

Of course, regardless of that, still have NOT read a convincing argument in this thread of why Sidekicks get a +2 better to hit than other PC classes.

The only somewhat arguments are that PC's get some things a level earlier (well...the Fighters at least...some of the other martial archetypes are still not justified in comparison by a long mile) which could be an answer...but not really all THAT weakening to the sidekicks unless you STOP your campaign on the earlier level...

OR...Feats.

Now, with Feats, those are optional. They are used to REPLACE as an option, the ASI's each class gets. If the classes get to the option to replace ASI's by choosing a feat, by that same rule, a PC playing a sidekick class should as well...which to me renders that idea that Feats give other PC classes an upperhand a moot point.

I don't see a single rule that says that if a Player takes a sidekick as a class they are then excluded from the other optional rules that every other Player can use.
It makes absolutely no distinction in the rules between use as PCs or NPCs as far as I can tell.
 


They get +2 to hit because that's the main thing they get, and its simple. It is also more necessary to up their to-hit game because whereas a player is rarely going to play a character without at least a 14 in their main attack stat (unless they are trying to play a handicapped character), there is a fair possibility that a sidekick was recruited as a person or creature with a statblock not particularly conducive to fighting at all. It's going to take a lot of ASIs to make the straight 10s of a human commoner outshine a PC, even with a +2 to hit.
 

ECMO3

Hero
We aren't talking simulationism though, we are just talking about relationships of power. Sidekicks are AWFULLY powerful compared to the normal PC classes in many ways.
I disagree with this completely. Just about any PC class would mop the floor with an equal-level sidekick.

I think the only exception is the spellcaster at low level with a truely debilitating spell like sleep and only then IF they win initiative.
 


ECMO3

Hero
Yes...yes it does...FOR NPCs....

However, does it say that same thing for PCs?

You COULD read it that way, but then it is contradicting the rules that came before it that allow them to play certain "monster" races that have only been rated at a CR higher than 1/2 (for example, Duergar) if taken in that literal interpretation.

From what I've read, it doesn't say much at all about PC's who take these Sidekick classes as PC classes at all. IN fact, it's only about a few lines, which make the rules EXTREMELY vague regarding them.
A storm giant is higher than CR1/2. A Storm Giant is CR13

If you are going to intentionally misinterpret the rule, why stop at Storm Giant? Play as a Terrasque sidekick PC. So your level 1 party is an elf wizard, a dwarf fighter, a halfling rogue and a Terrasque warrior defender.

Do you honestly think this interpretation is defendable?
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
@ECMO3 did you quote me by accident?

As I already stated, I agree, Storm Giants and Tarrasques are not valid choices for sidekicks. A sidekick must a creature of CR 1/2 or less.
 

Remove ads

Top