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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6640449" data-attributes="member: 48965">What is the fundamental paladin archetype?  Is it a spellcaster or just a warrior dedicated to a "holy" cause?  I honestly couldn't say for certain.  I think the problem may be that your definition of the fighter archetype is too narrow if it doesn't allow for a warrior who enhances his battle prowess through mystical means... that's a pretty common fighter archetype, especially in this day and age. I didn't assume they were either... I stated if they aren't used then the fighter gets better at non-combat stuff in a general sense by increasing his abilities, and thus his chances for performing ability/skill checks outside of combat.I thought the assertion was that most campaigns make it into the mid-teens (be nice if you could provide a quote or citation for this statement).  We can debate about what a hypothetical "most" players will see with the fighter class or we can discuss the actual class as it is in the rule books and what it offers... one makes assumptions that should probably be backed up the other doesn't... so unless you can provide evidence for the assertion I'm going to stick to discussing the class as a whole, not a subset of it's levels.So again we see the issue of I want to be a god of combat and have a ton of non-combat stuff as well... something has to be given up in one area to gain in the other... if you're not willing to sacrifice some combat ability, especially with bounded accuracy making extreme optimization less necessary then yeah you're getting exactly the type of character you want to play... a combat character.  So again, don't make these choices then whine that there isn't any non-combat stuff for your fighter to do.Of the non-combat feats I listed which ones should scale?  I'm asking because of a few factors...1. Unlike most spells they are always "on" no duration, no concentration, no chance to be disrupted, dispelled, etc.2. Many give abilities that can't scale because they are peak abilities... ex. Alert: can't be surprised while you are conscious... how do you scale this?  Make it work when he's unconscious as well?   Or Keen Mind... Always know which way is north, always know the number of hours left before sunrise and sunset, and can accurately recall anything you've seen or heard in the last month.  How do you scale those abilities?3.  Many give advantage/disadvantage to something which again either is or isn't... there's no scaling with it.4. Many incorporate an ability/skill check (which scales if you are proficient in it because of proficiency bonus.) or use level as a determiner.I'd say the healer feat could possibly scale better but in a general sense I'm not seeing scaling as an issue with the non-combat feats. With the power of feats in 5e I disagree... this might be a hold over from previous editions where feats really weren't that powerful but in 5e 2 extra feats is huge with the amount of non-combat stuff it can allow you to do.Again... have you actually looked at how powerful feats are in 5e?  Trying to compare feats in 3e/4e vs. feats in 5e just isn't an apples to apples comparison.  I honestly think the 5e fighter is better than both the 3e fighter and the 4e fighter when it comes to non-combat ability... equal number of skills... able to pick two with no restrictions from the entire list through backgrounds, for the price of one feat can become widely capable in a non-combat area and is top tier in combat.I don't know how many times I can say this... Bonus Feats/ Ability improvements are a fighter class feature and can easily be used to make a fighter more non-combat capable... if the player wants him to be.  What hasn't taken place is the fighter being the best combatant (how many attacks per action does he top out at again?) and having a plethora of built in non-combat abilities.  You can... not like the fact that you have to give up some combat prowess in order to gain some non-combat functionality, but in the end you can't claim the fighter has no recourse for getting non-combat functionality.</blockquote>

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