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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6643256" data-attributes="member: 6774887">Here is the thing, at low levels, when you really need your level 1 and 2 spells for combat, there is very little difference between the fighter and other classes at exploration tasks. If you had a war cleric with 14 Strength, he is only 1 or 2 worse than the fighter at Str based checks, but has guidance for +d4 to every check he makes. The circle of the moon druid can turn into an 18 Strength bear and be better than the fighter at those tasks. The bard with 12 Str and expertise is significnatly better than the fighter at such tasks. This means that at low levels, you are better off having one of those other classes than a fighter for getting by physical challenges.At higher levels, if the enemies know physical challenges can by bypassed through low level spells, why would they leave the physical challenges there at all. Wouldn't it be better to make 35 foot chasms that no mundane warrior could ever jump. Or why not us unclimbable walls of force. Or. Or. Or.Basically, why is the DM fiat saying no to low level spells solving the problem, but still allowing for the +10 athletics check fighter (who is still worse than the 14 str war cleric with guidance) to succeed. That seems like you are artificially making situations for the fighter to get to use his athletics skills.Also, not all exploration is into defensible enemy positions. Sometimes it is actual exploration.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6643256, member: 6774887"] Here is the thing, at low levels, when you really need your level 1 and 2 spells for combat, there is very little difference between the fighter and other classes at exploration tasks. If you had a war cleric with 14 Strength, he is only 1 or 2 worse than the fighter at Str based checks, but has guidance for +d4 to every check he makes. The circle of the moon druid can turn into an 18 Strength bear and be better than the fighter at those tasks. The bard with 12 Str and expertise is significnatly better than the fighter at such tasks. This means that at low levels, you are better off having one of those other classes than a fighter for getting by physical challenges. At higher levels, if the enemies know physical challenges can by bypassed through low level spells, why would they leave the physical challenges there at all. Wouldn't it be better to make 35 foot chasms that no mundane warrior could ever jump. Or why not us unclimbable walls of force. Or. Or. Or. Basically, why is the DM fiat saying no to low level spells solving the problem, but still allowing for the +10 athletics check fighter (who is still worse than the 14 str war cleric with guidance) to succeed. That seems like you are artificially making situations for the fighter to get to use his athletics skills. Also, not all exploration is into defensible enemy positions. Sometimes it is actual exploration. [/QUOTE]

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