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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6643374" data-attributes="member: 6774887">I think the root of the problem is that fighter's cant do anything outside of combat that other PCs couldn't already do.A war cleric with 14 Strength and guidance is just as capable at overcoming Strength related tasks as a 20 Strength fighter without using a single spell slot.A valor bard with expertise in Strength is better than the fighter at such tasks without relying on his spells..A moon druid can turn into forms that are far more capable of overcoming physical challenges (stronger, faster, flight, etc) without relying on spells.Even the wizard has access to rituals like find familiar (can fly, help, etc), unseen servant, tensers disk, and other spells that are more valuable to exploration without requiring a spell slot to be spent.Warlocks have invocations like at-will jump or levitate.And so on. Most classes have a variety of ways to contribute to exploration without using their spells that rival the basic skill checks the fighter has.Because of bounded accuracy, even a 14 Strength PC isn't significantly behind the fighter in terms of capability in the field of STR based exploration.On the other hand, the spellcaster might also have access to some low level spells that completely bypass an athletics check with 100% chance of success.So what does the fighter contribute that any other 14 Strength PC can't contribute nearly equally well in a non-combat situatution. Never mind the fact that the other PC probably also possesses exploration related abilities that are far more potent and useful than the fighter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6643374, member: 6774887"] I think the root of the problem is that fighter's cant do anything outside of combat that other PCs couldn't already do. A war cleric with 14 Strength and guidance is just as capable at overcoming Strength related tasks as a 20 Strength fighter without using a single spell slot. A valor bard with expertise in Strength is better than the fighter at such tasks without relying on his spells.. A moon druid can turn into forms that are far more capable of overcoming physical challenges (stronger, faster, flight, etc) without relying on spells. Even the wizard has access to rituals like find familiar (can fly, help, etc), unseen servant, tensers disk, and other spells that are more valuable to exploration without requiring a spell slot to be spent. Warlocks have invocations like at-will jump or levitate. And so on. Most classes have a variety of ways to contribute to exploration without using their spells that rival the basic skill checks the fighter has. Because of bounded accuracy, even a 14 Strength PC isn't significantly behind the fighter in terms of capability in the field of STR based exploration. On the other hand, the spellcaster might also have access to some low level spells that completely bypass an athletics check with 100% chance of success. So what does the fighter contribute that any other 14 Strength PC can't contribute nearly equally well in a non-combat situatution. Never mind the fact that the other PC probably also possesses exploration related abilities that are far more potent and useful than the fighter. [/QUOTE]

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