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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6644202" data-attributes="member: 6774887">Imagine a high level commoner with training in athletics and a high strength score. It has exact same contribution to STR related challenges as the fighter, right? That is what I meant by the commoner having the same contribution as a fighter. That is the problem with the fighter, anyone with a decent strength and training in Athletics can be basically as good as the fighter at STR related challenges, but they also have things like spells, rituals, expertise, reliable talent, or non combat class features that make them better overall.I'm not asking for a fighter to be the absolute best at athletics related tasks. That will usually fall to someone with expertise and/or magic. What I want is for STR based PCs to have some unique non-combat capabilities. Right now, when you have a 40 ft chasm, you will need a spellcaster. When you have an unclimbable wall of force, you will need a spellcaster. When a 5 ton boulder bars your way, you will need a spellcaster.It would be cool if such challenges could be surmounted by the martial characters (without expending spell resources). Those abilities are thematically fitting for mid to high level warriors in myth and fantasy. They give such warriors interesting ways to interact with exploration challenges. They also give something unique to the STR based PCs outside of combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6644202, member: 6774887"] Imagine a high level commoner with training in athletics and a high strength score. It has exact same contribution to STR related challenges as the fighter, right? That is what I meant by the commoner having the same contribution as a fighter. That is the problem with the fighter, anyone with a decent strength and training in Athletics can be basically as good as the fighter at STR related challenges, but they also have things like spells, rituals, expertise, reliable talent, or non combat class features that make them better overall. I'm not asking for a fighter to be the absolute best at athletics related tasks. That will usually fall to someone with expertise and/or magic. What I want is for STR based PCs to have some unique non-combat capabilities. Right now, when you have a 40 ft chasm, you will need a spellcaster. When you have an unclimbable wall of force, you will need a spellcaster. When a 5 ton boulder bars your way, you will need a spellcaster. It would be cool if such challenges could be surmounted by the martial characters (without expending spell resources). Those abilities are thematically fitting for mid to high level warriors in myth and fantasy. They give such warriors interesting ways to interact with exploration challenges. They also give something unique to the STR based PCs outside of combat. [/QUOTE]

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