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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6644235" data-attributes="member: 2525">Any way you look at it, the fighter has more options for out of combat things than a lot of people seem to think it has.&nbsp; They get more ability increases/feats than any other class.&nbsp; If you don't allow feats in your game, the ability increases directly translate into better skill checks and ability checks, which absolutely play a LARGE role in out of combat challenges.&nbsp; If you do include feats, the feats with non-combat application are plenty, and several have been noted in this thread. How is that not a built-in non-combat benefit for the Fighter? How is that not better than a commoner?What's weird is I think people are penalizing the fighter for giving the player CHOICES for those class abilities.&nbsp; If they had simply removed some of the extra feats and forced it to be one of the feats with lots of non-combat application, I doubt people would be complaining.&nbsp; But because a particular player could CHOOSE to not take one of those feats if they don't want to, somehow this is a knock on the fighter? If those extra feats were instead simply replaced with the text of Alertness, Lucky and Dungeon Delver, would people be complaining?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6644235, member: 2525"] Any way you look at it, the fighter has more options for out of combat things than a lot of people seem to think it has. They get more ability increases/feats than any other class. If you don't allow feats in your game, the ability increases directly translate into better skill checks and ability checks, which absolutely play a LARGE role in out of combat challenges. If you do include feats, the feats with non-combat application are plenty, and several have been noted in this thread. How is that not a built-in non-combat benefit for the Fighter? How is that not better than a commoner? What's weird is I think people are penalizing the fighter for giving the player CHOICES for those class abilities. If they had simply removed some of the extra feats and forced it to be one of the feats with lots of non-combat application, I doubt people would be complaining. But because a particular player could CHOOSE to not take one of those feats if they don't want to, somehow this is a knock on the fighter? If those extra feats were instead simply replaced with the text of Alertness, Lucky and Dungeon Delver, would people be complaining? [/QUOTE]

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